Hurdy-gurdy Mailing List - April 2000
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Our deepest thanks to Maxou Heintzen for this fabulous photograph, taken at Saint-Cloud near Paris in 1957 by an unknown photographer.
The following are the archives of the Hurdy-gurdy Mailing List, sponsored by Alden and Cali Hackmann of Olympic Musical Instruments.
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 13:07:20 -0400
From: Xavier AIME <XAIME _at_ wanadoo.fr>
Subject: HG: Mailing List : introduction - plan
Hi Folks,
I'm French (nobody's perfect ... ;-) ), and I have been playing
hurdy'gurdy for five years (traditionnal, renaissance ... ). I have a web
site about this marvellous instrument
(http://perso.wanadoo.fr/xaime/vielle.html) where you are very welcome.
At the moment, I have a big plan : for her thousandth birthday, try to
define "Utopia" then ideal hurdy-gurdy. It consists in the synthesis of
dreams or wishes and ideals projects of hurdy-gurdies. For that, I would
like to collect more projects than possible. If you have some ideas, don't
hesitate to write me mail with your project's description (text, pictures
or maps ...).
Thank you very much for your participation,
Xavier
_______________________________________________
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 14:13:10 -0400
From: "peter.j.hughes _at_ bt.com" <peter.j.hughes _at_ bt.com>
Subject: HG: RE: Hurdy Gurdy workshop
Unless my mailer is playing up again you seem to have a had a diappointing
response on this one Frank. You can take it that, as usual I'll be up for
it although life is rather busy at the moment. Hense my absence at
Pied-a-Terre recently. I trust you and the rest of the Norwich crowd are
well.
My instant thought, ignoring practicality for the moment, is how about
something radically different. We've had, and I'm sure will continue to
have lots of fun with the French and Anglo-Frenchg styles via
Blowzabella/Nigel/Cliff/LeChavenee/Bouffard/Maxu etc, so now what about some
Eastern European or Scandinavian music? I can't think of many names off
hand, but getting Garmana or Hedningarna over would be really cool!
Regards,
Peter Hughes.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Frank _at_ vickhast.demon.co.uk
> Sent: Friday, March 31, 2000 10:59 AM
> Subject: HG: Hurdy Gurdy workshop
>
> Hi folks
>
> I'm thinking of trying to organise a weekend hurdy gurdy workshop for
> folk music here in Norwich, UK for January 2001. Would anyone be
> interested in coming?
>
> If so who would you like to have as the teachers?
> What topics would you like to have?
>
> Frank Vickers
_______________________________________________
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:18:46 -0400
From: Nick Nourse <nick.mapworks _at_ frogwell.telinco.co.uk>
Subject: HG: Auction prices
hi All
A gurdy turned up at a recent auction of musical instruments in Bath (UK),
catalogued as: Good 19th C Hurdy Gurdy, Branded Thouvenel Henri A.
Mirecourt.
This was a guitar body, chromatic over 1 1/2 octaves (may have been more),
with a carved head of (claimed) St. Cecilia. The body, keybox and head were
all very well worked, but the keys, tangents and all bridges were
distinctly rough. About half the keys were missing, as was the wheel cover,
and there were several splits in the front around the sound holes. There
was minimal play in the shaft, and a reasonably round wheel in place.
The instrument sold for £880 (pounds sterling), plus 11.75% buyers premium.
Was this a good price?
One other point; the front (soundboard) had a series of eight holes drilled
through within the keybox (about 1/4 inch dia.) presumably to aid sound
transmission from the body. Anyone care to comment?
Nick, (with a slowly progressing Bosch model).
_______________________________________________
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 21:57:28 -0400
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: HG: Thouvenel
My personnal opinion : I would not pay that much for an instrument with
so many parts missing , I would think differently if it was a HG by
Baton ,Louvet , Varquain
or another great maker from the 18 th cent. but as far as I know ,
Thouvenel
instruments are almost factory made .
Not old enough for a true museum piece , to old to be played .
_______________________________________________
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 22:00:57 -0400
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: HG: Thouvenel II
The holes in the sound board are supposed to prevent cracks or
unglueing from
wood dilatation/ contraction , or humidity changes . I do not know if it
really works.
_______________________________________________
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 02:21:14 -0400
From: Marcello Bono <ghironda _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: HG: Re: HG: Thouvenel
I agree : not old enough for a museum, too old to be played, but a true
museum gurdy (as Louvet, Lambert, Louvet) would be more expensive: I've
never seen an instrument like these for less than 2000 - 2500 english pound
(that is 3000 - 3700 US dollars), and lot more than this for a playable
instrument.
ciao
Marcello
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
_______________________________________________
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 04:34:21 -0400
From: Marcello Bono <ghironda _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: HG: just a test
just a test
does it work?
Marcello
_______________________________________________
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 07:36:12 -0400
From: Judith Lindenau <judith _at_ taar.com>
Subject: HG: RE: just a test
Yes. We are just quiet.
Some of us are waiting for our new instruments... (smile)
judith
Judith Lindenau, CAE, RCE
Traverse Area Association of Realtors
http://www.taar.com
icq 6445710
MAILTO:judith _at_ taar.com
_______________________________________________
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 02:51:00 -0400
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: HG: Re: HG: RE: just a test
> --- Marcello wrote:
>
> just a test
>
> does it work?
>
It's been quiet all over, I thought maybe my e-mail
was broke ;-(
> --- Judith wrote:
>
> Yes. We are just quiet.
>
> Some of us are waiting for our new instruments...
> (smile)
...and some of us are making our new instruments. I
got my health back enough to get out to the shop and
resume work on another Dewit gurdy (a pretty one). I
want to put sympathetic strings on this one and am
wondering if I should widen the top: if so how much?
Also, I don't really like the soundholes where they
are. What would happen if I put them up toward the peg
end or set one large rosetted hole under the tangent
box?
Later
Roy T.
_______________________________________________
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 17:46:55 -0400
From: SB/JW <duodrone _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: HG: Re: HG: end block
Hello,
I am putting the finishing touches on a luteback mould (my first). It's a
toast rack type and has 4 sections plus an end block at the pegbox end. I
had measurements for all of these. The end block at the handle end raises a
few questions though. a) How precise to the inside contour of the
ribs/staves does it need to be, and how do I go about obtaining accurate
measurements. b) Before I cut the end of my mould off, is there any
advantage in building the body as if it were a lute and glueing in the end
block after the body is released from the mould? c) The drawing I have of
this end block shows a side elevation that is widest were it contacts the
soundboard and tapers off towards the ribs at an angle that, I would
imagine, make it hard to get the body off the mould once everything is
glued. Is there a way round this? Am I imagining problems where there are
none?
Juan
_______________________________________________
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 18:03:07 -0400
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: HG: Broecker book translation - volunteers?
Dear HG list,
As you may all know, one of the most extensive works written on the
hurdy-gurdy is "Die Drehleier, ihr Bau und ihr Geshichte" by
Marianne Broecker, published 1977. (The name is actually Brocker with an
umlaut over the o, which my computer here at the University seems
incapable of doing.)
We have in our possession an English translation commissioned by a
hurdy-gurdy builder in Vancouver, who lent it to us. Unfortunately it
was hand-typed, and the final product was badly photocopied. It's not in
any shape to be distributed in any form until it gets typed in and
reformatted.
At my present rate of typing, I'll be in the retirement home before it's
done. Some nice people have offered to help, but it's still a big
project.
The caveat is that it's not really clear what the fate of the effort will
be. I'd like to see the translation put on the Web complete with all the
illustrations, but we'd need to get the permission of the author and the
publisher to do that. We should at least be able to distribute printouts
of the translation in the HG community.
The originals (and subsequently the working copies) are bad enough that
using a scanner and OCR software is not very effective - it's easier to
type it by hand.
If you'd like to sacrifice a little of your eyesight and do some typing,
or you can help with translating the phrases of German, French, and other
languages that weren't covered, please contact me at hurdy _at_ silverlink.net
(not this darkstar _at_ etc address.) I'm putting together packets of pages
and a sheet of guidelines for formatting, designed to make it easier to
collate and edit the final product.
It also appears that only the first two volumes were translated, not the
supplement which was published seperately from the earlier editions and
was bound with later printings. There's some interesting material there,
including photos of vielle builder Marcel Soing at work. If anyone is
willing to work on translating this, please contact me.
Thanks in advance!
Alden F.M. Hackmann darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu
Web: http://www.hurdygurdy.com/hg/hghome.html
"Beati illi qui in circulum circumeunt, fient enim magnae rotae."
_______________________________________________
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 18:16:43 -0400
From: jjandr _at_ netzero.net
Subject: HG: Re: Broecker book translation - volunteers?
I am still ready to go on this project whenever you are.
Joanne
_______________________________________________
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 18:21:00 -0400
From: Judy V Olmstead <shanti _at_ thurston.com>
Subject: HG: An astonishing discovery
Dear List,
I had a very interesting experience yesterday--took my HG to Alden and Cali
for repairs--there was an odd warble with the wheel. A kind of wheel sound,
not too loud. After they worked on the wheel surface, it persisted, and the
idea popped up to put Alden's crank on my instrument--and the warble
disappeared. He ptu my crank on his instrument, and lo and behold, the
warble appeared on his! He is currently making me a new crank, and the two
of them are excited at having learned yet one more detail of HG crafting.
This can serve as a preliminary report from a non-maker with ordinary
lingo; as they pursue the subject, they will have a lot more to share in
much more precise language. The knob on my HG is rather short and doesn't
have as much differentiation between the wide top of the knob and the
neck--but they aren't really sure what's making the difference. One more
horizon in HG-maker-land!
Best, Judy Olmstead
_______________________________________________
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 18:25:50 -0400
From: Chris Wright <9741729 _at_ EIGG.SMS.ED.AC.UK>
Subject: HG: wanted
Hello,
I'm a young traditional musician from Scotland. I'm am very
keen on the sound of the hurdy gurdy and would like to get my
hands on one to learn on. Does anyone have a hurdy gurdy they
could sell me (it would have to be relatively inexpensive and near
the UK)?
Chris Wright
_______________________________________________
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 18:56:51 -0400
From: Judith Lindenau <judith _at_ taar.com>
Subject: HG: RE: Broecker book translation - volunteers?
I can type, not translate. I also have a printing operation
as a part of my business so I have some reproduction capabilities:
not glamorous, but it could work.
judith
Judith Lindenau, CAE, RCE
Traverse Area Association of Realtors
http://www.taar.com
icq 6445710
MAILTO:judith _at_ taar.com
_______________________________________________
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 20:08:08 -0400
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: HG: end block
Juan wrote:
> I am putting the finishing touches on a luteback mould (my first). It's a
> toast rack type and has 4 sections plus an end block at the pegbox end. I
> had measurements for all of these.
Is this the form shown in the extra sheet on the Pimpard plans from
Michael Muskett?
> The end block at the handle end raises a
> few questions though. a) How precise to the inside contour of the
> ribs/staves does it need to be, and how do I go about obtaining accurate
> measurements.
For good or ill, I confess that I just rounded off the tail block to
smoothly (hopefully) follow the curves of the ribs. It's pretty much flat
at this point anyway - angled a little with regard to the soundboard, and
curved a little in both planes, but not much. I'll be interested by the
other responses you get.
> b) Before I cut the end of my mould off, is there any
> advantage in building the body as if it were a lute and glueing in the end
> block after the body is released from the mould?
We tack or staple the ends of the ribs to the tail block, and the holes
get covered by the tail cap that goes on later. I think you need the tail
block as a bearing/reference surface to bring all the rib ends together
on. If you try it with gluing the tail block in later, please let us
know, as we'll be interested to see how it works.
> c) The drawing I have of
> this end block shows a side elevation that is widest were it contacts the
> soundboard and tapers off towards the ribs at an angle that, I would
> imagine, make it hard to get the body off the mould once everything is
> glued. Is there a way round this? Am I imagining problems where there are
> none?
If these are, as I suspect, the Pimpard plans, I think you'll find that
the head side of the tail block is square to the soundboard. If it's not,
I don't think there's any harm in making it so.
We did have some interesting moments getting the instrument off the
mould. We carefully finished and waxed the solid mould we had used
previously, but thought that the toast-rack wouldn't need it. I recommend
finishing and triple-waxing the form.
Are you taking pictures? ;-)
Alden
_______________________________________________
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 02:59:51 -0400
From: SB/JW <duodrone _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: HG: Re: HG: blocks & volunteers
Hi Alden
Thanks for your comments. The plans I am working from are from Germany and
are for a smallish lutebacked hurdy-gurdy by Lasnier. They are on one sheet
and offer 4 cross sections, the last of these also shows the inside end of
the head block as a bonus. However there is little to go by at the tail
end. I have the curve of the central rib and the curve of the soundboard.
(No other ribs to follow the curves of).
The side elevation shows the tailblock looking like a right angle triangle,
the right angle being at the point where the ribs meet the soundboard. This
is why I am thinking that if I don't cut away clearance from the mould, I
won't be able to get it past the tailbock when the time comes. Your
suggestion to make the tail block perpendicular to the soundboard at the
head side makes good sense, but I still have to cut the mould so I will
stay with the triangular section.( I have spent too much time on it
already). Thanks for the tip on waxing. I read somewhere that soap works
well too. I have not taken any pictures, but that's a good and timely idea.
Also.... I can do some German* translating for you, if it's not too
archaic. Sharon is offering her typing skills.
* Between the two of us we can tackle French, Spanish, Dutch and
Joweleese..should you need it.
_______________________________________________
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 03:58:33 -0400
From: george swallow <swallow _at_ beechcottage98.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: HG: Another newbie
I am introducing myself as a newbie, not only to the hg but to email and
posting anything to a newsgroup; I hope it works.
I first became interested in the HG many years ago after hearing one played
at an exhibition in London, the main exhibitor being the Early Music Shop in
Bradford, with several of their kits etc. I also talked to another
exhibitor, Neil Brook, discovered prices and promptly forgot about the whole
thing!
Some time after that I signed up to make a viola at the summer school
sessions run by Juliet Barker in Cambridge. Several years later (about five
weeks really- I never dared touch it between one July and the next) it is
ready for varnishing. Whilst there, I came across the Dutch De Wit book that
Alden mentions in his home page, (sent to Juliet as a present by one of her
pupils) and I started making the hurdy gurdy it contained, working mainly
from the pictures and meagre help from a Dutch dictionary.
As with most of my projects, there are long fallow periods, and the HG is in
limbo at present, waiting for the bridges and the tailpiece to be fitted,
plus the dreaded chien, whilst I labour on with a tenor viol, a steam
engine, and a clock.
Alden sent me the English version of the instructions which cleared up a few
blank spots, but it seems to me that the drawings plus a lot of thinking are
sufficient. Like all drawings, they contain clods you need to spot in
advance.
I would like to hear from anyone else making this instument, or any other
come to that.
I am in Dorking, Surrey England
Best wishes to all.
George Swallow
("-"-/").___..""`-._
`6_6 ) `-. ( ). `-.__.')
(_Y_.)' ._ ), ._. ``-..-'
_..'--' ..- / /--' .',/
(il),-" (li),' ((!.-'
_______________________________________________
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 16:34:57 -0400
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: HG: Translations again
Thanks to all who have volunteered for typing the Broecker
translation. I'm making up packets to send and hand out.
Alden F.M. Hackmann darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu
Web: http://www.hurdygurdy.com/hg/hghome.html
"Beati illi qui in circulum circumeunt, fient enim magnae rotae."
_______________________________________________
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 16:51:59 -0400
From: John Roberts <anglo _at_ albany.net>
Subject: HG:
Hello, and thanks (Alden) for adding me to the list.
I mostly sing English folksongs, but got interested in hurdy-gurdy
years ago, then met John Ralyea in Chicago, who offered to lend me an
old instrument. I lived a bit far away so I declined the offer (big
mistake) but later I did get a Volksgurdy and started playing. I now
also have a Jean-Noel Grandchamps instrument, which I got from Debbie
Dawson.
I don't practice anywhere near enough, but do like to get together
with people when I can - I just came back from the NEFFA festival in
Natick, MA where I finally met Alden and Cali, RT, and a number of
other players including a remarkably strong Seattle contingent. I'd
not heard about the list before but I'm glad I have now.
I have no woodworking skills whatsoever, so that part of hurdy-gurdy
life will probably remain closed to me, interesting as it is.
I'm in upstate NY.
Since it seems to be protocol to introduce oneself to the list, I am,
John Roberts.
_______________________________________________
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 18:37:41 -0400
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: HG: John Ralyea, NEFFA
On Wed, 26 Apr 2000, John Roberts wrote:
> Hello, and thanks (Alden) for adding me to the list.
My pleasure!
>
> I mostly sing English folksongs, but got interested in hurdy-gurdy
> years ago, then met John Ralyea in Chicago, who offered to lend me an
> old instrument. I lived a bit far away so I declined the offer (big
> mistake) but later I did get a Volksgurdy and started playing. I now
> also have a Jean-Noel Grandchamps instrument, which I got from Debbie
> Dawson.
I talked to John Ralyea once on the few years ago. He seemed to have lost
his interest in the instrument. When did you meet him, and what was he
like?
>
> I don't practice anywhere near enough, but do like to get together
> with people when I can - I just came back from the NEFFA festival in
> Natick, MA where I finally met Alden and Cali, RT, and a number of
> other players including a remarkably strong Seattle contingent. I'd
> not heard about the list before but I'm glad I have now.
We had a great time at NEFFA, meeting people and playing a whole lot of
hurdy-gurdy. Thanks to all the East Coast HG players who showed up and
were so gracious to us.
> I have no woodworking skills whatsoever, so that part of hurdy-gurdy
> life will probably remain closed to me, interesting as it is.
The topics vary, depending on who is doing what. Sometimes it's
construction, sometimes technique, sometimes it's whose recordings or
concerts we're enjoying. Feel free to start new conversations!
Alden F.M. Hackmann darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu
Web: http://www.hurdygurdy.com/hg/hghome.html
"Beati illi qui in circulum circumeunt, fient enim magnae rotae."
_______________________________________________
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 20:23:48 -0400
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: HG: Welcome George
On Wed, 26 Apr 2000, george swallow wrote:
> I am introducing myself as a newbie, not only to the hg but to email and
> posting anything to a newsgroup; I hope it works.
Reading you loud and clear. ;-)
> Some time after that I signed up to make a viola at the summer school
> sessions run by Juliet Barker in Cambridge. Several years later (about five
> weeks really- I never dared touch it between one July and the next) it is
> ready for varnishing. Whilst there, I came across the Dutch De Wit book that
> Alden mentions in his home page, (sent to Juliet as a present by one of her
> pupils) and I started making the hurdy gurdy it contained, working mainly
> from the pictures and meagre help from a Dutch dictionary.
>
> As with most of my projects, there are long fallow periods, and the HG is in
> limbo at present, waiting for the bridges and the tailpiece to be fitted,
> plus the dreaded chien, whilst I labour on with a tenor viol, a steam
> engine, and a clock.
George sent us some pictures of his instrument in progress a few years
ago, which I greatly regret I haven't posted on the website yet. The
instrument looks to be turning out very well.
There are several tricks with the chien.
1) Figure that you will make a lot of them before you get one that works.
2) It's difficult if you don't play already, because you don't know the
right motion to make the chien sound. Get someone to teach you the simple
coup de un (one buzz per rotation) with a well-adjusted instrument. Then
you have half a chance of knowing whether you're getting it right or not.
3) This may not be true of everyone, but in our workshop The Rule
of Ugly Dogs seems to prevail. It states that you can make a lot of really
nice-looking dogs, and they won't work quite right, and you can make one
or two of which you like the sound of but they are Ugly. We continue
to aspire to combine function and form.
> Alden sent me the English version of the instructions which cleared up a few
> blank spots, but it seems to me that the drawings plus a lot of thinking are
> sufficient. Like all drawings, they contain clods you need to spot in
> advance.
>
> I would like to hear from anyone else making this instument, or any other
> come to that.
There are at least two people on the list who have made this
instrument. I'm sure you'll be hearing from them.
Alden F.M. Hackmann darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu
Web: http://www.hurdygurdy.com/hg/hghome.html
"Beati illi qui in circulum circumeunt, fient enim magnae rotae."
_______________________________________________
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:55:15 -0400
From: John Roberts <anglo _at_ albany.net>
Subject: HG: Re: HG: John Ralyea, NEFFA
At 6:37 PM -0400 4/26/00, Alden Hackmann wrote:
>
>I talked to John Ralyea once on the few years ago. He seemed to have lost
>his interest in the instrument. When did you meet him, and what was he
>like?
>
> >
When I met him he was playing for a Morris dance team in Chicago.
Alternating with hurdy-gurdy he was also playing marine trumpet, both
highly unlikely imstruments for morris) in duet with a Swiss recorder
player whose name I don't recall. He was about to get a new
instrument from Kurt Reichmann. He was very enthusiastic about the
instrument then, evangelical even, and wrote a short article on it
for Come For To Sing, which was then a flourishing folk magazine,
having spun off from being the house mag of the Old Town School of
Folk Music. This would have been around 1980, I think. I didn't get
to Chicago all that often, and I didn't get to see him again. When I
started to look for him, I learned he'd joined the Peace Corps and
gone off to Africa. I've heard nothing of him since, but I'd be
interested to hear if others have met him more latterly.
John.
_______________________________________________
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 07:34:24 -0400
From: Uwe Jendricke <ujendric _at_ telematik.iig.uni-freiburg.de>
Subject: HG: New list member
Hello,
as a new member of the HG list I send a short description of my HG activities.
I live in the south west of Germany (Blackforest) and I am relatively new to the
HG instrument. Just one year ago I visited a playing workshop in
Frankfurt/Germany, organized by Kurt Reichmann. I was fascinated by the
instrument and just a few weeks later I bought a small instrument that was
build by Bernd Maier in southern Germany. Since that time I play a lot and get
lessons from Bernd Maier. I love playing some french dances and songs by
O'Carolan, together with harp, played by my girlfriend.
I have set up a hurdy-gurdy web page for the german speaking area with dates,
addresses and other information. There you can see a picture of my gurdy too.
In the next time I want to add english language to the pages. Just have a look
at
http://www.drehleier-online.de/
Is there anybody else on this list from germany?
Is anybody in St. Chartier this year? Perhaps we could organize a mailing list
meeting at St. Chartier this year!
See you soon,
Uwe Jendricke
--
Uwe Jendricke <jendricke _at_ web.de>
D- 79098 Freiburg, +49-761-25665
http://www.drehleier-online.de/
_______________________________________________
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 08:38:58 -0400
From: Xurxo Romani de Gabriel <jromanid _at_ medynet.com>
Subject: HG: Re: HG: New list member
>
>
> Is there anybody else on this list from germany?
>
> Is anybody in St. Chartier this year? Perhaps we could organize a mailing list
> meeting at St. Chartier this year!
I will be going there, as usual. We have to organise a meeting in the "Meca" this
year...
XURXO
_______________________________________________
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 17:51:10 -0400
From: Nick Nourse <nick.mapworks _at_ frogwell.telinco.co.uk>
Subject: HG: Wheel banding
Hello again,
I am one the scrounge again for some more advice on my Bosch HG - on the
wheel this time.
I have made the wheel from plywood, with two extra facing veneers to
improve the appearance, giving a flat wheel of 12mm thickness, turned 4mm
(dia) undersize, to accept a 2mm band of holly. I also have a strip of
approx. 3x14mm holly of sufficient length.
How do I get one to fit around the other?
I understand the principal and dimension of the necessary scarf joint, but
it is simply (?) the bending and gluing I am unsure about.
I assume the best approach to start with is to bend the holly using a
bending iron (heat and steam), but the thought of bending a perfect circle
sounds horrendous.
Also, how do I clamp this strip on to the wheel for gluing? The most over
the top solution, but probably the best, seems to be to make two
semi-circular clamping blocks, or is there something more straight forward
I can try?
While I'm here, what would be a suitable finish to apply to the instrument
as a whole, oils, spirit, shellac? All thoughts gratefully appreciated.
Thanks as usual in advance.
Nick
_______________________________________________
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 18:09:17 -0400
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: HG: Re: HG: Wheel banding
Nick said:
>Hello again,
>I am one the scrounge again for some more advice on my Bosch HG - on the
>wheel this time.
Yes, the Really Fun Part ;-) ;-)
The site looks great! I particularly liked the advice on how to make the
peghead.
>I have made the wheel from plywood, with two extra facing veneers to
>improve the appearance, giving a flat wheel of 12mm thickness, turned 4mm
>(dia) undersize, to accept a 2mm band of holly. I also have a strip of
>approx. 3x14mm holly of sufficient length.
This all sounds perfect.
>How do I get one to fit around the other?
>I understand the principal and dimension of the necessary scarf joint, but
>it is simply (?) the bending and gluing I am unsure about.
>I assume the best approach to start with is to bend the holly using a
>bending iron (heat and steam), but the thought of bending a perfect circle
>sounds horrendous.
We use a circular bending jig built specifically for that purpose, with a
200-watt light bulb in the center and a large piece of aluminum pipe or
tubing. This is perhaps a little extreme if you're going to just make one
instrument.
I think that the bending iron is your best bet. Luckily, holly is easy to
bend, especially when it's only 3mm thick. I'm sure that with careful work
you can get a nice smooth curve.
>Also, how do I clamp this strip on to the wheel for gluing? The most over
>the top solution, but probably the best, seems to be to make two
>semi-circular clamping blocks, or is there something more straight forward
>I can try?
We use hose clamps. Depending on the sizes available, you may have to join
two together end to end. I put a little piece of thick veneer under the
worm-screw part so it doesn't dent the wood, and I also use a piece of thin
(~0.4 mm) plastic all around the band to protect it.
The advantage of hose clamps is that you can see how well your slip joint
is fitting together, as well as how the band is fitting all around. I also
use a pair of machinist clamps (which look like tiny Jorgensens made of
brass) to hold the slip joint ends together, as they tend to form a gap.
One last piece of advice for band gluing: polyurethane glue. We used to
use aliphatic resins, and they grabbed at the wrong times - very
frustrating. The Gorilla Glue is much easier to use in this situation.
I've given up on keeping it off my hands in this situation.
>While I'm here, what would be a suitable finish to apply to the instrument
>as a whole, oils, spirit, shellac? All thoughts gratefully appreciated.
That's Cali's department. :-)
Alden
_______________________________________________
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 18:21:00 -0400
From: Mike Gilpin <mjgilpin _at_ tesco.net>
Subject: HG: Re: Wheel banding
Hi Nick - I use a Jubilee clip or clips depending on the diameter of the
wheel, and to protect the banding from the screw fittings on the clip I put
a strip of thin ply (0.8mm) on the outer side with double sided tape.
Bending the strip is achieved on the bending iron, and is not as difficult
to get a good circle as you might think. If you offer it up to the wheel
regularly when bending it, you'll see when you're going off course. I also
soak the strip in the bath before bending and this makes it super pliable!
As for the finish to your instrument, it really is a matter of personal
taste. I've had great success with a finish called Tru-oil, but it does mean
the wood preparation takes a while - working through the grades and then
finishing off with micromesh (goes up to 12000grit!). You do get a really
silky finish, shiny but not too glossy.
Mike
_______________________________________________
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 18:28:51 -0400
From: "Dfiddler _at_ aol.com" <Dfiddler _at_ aol.com>
Subject: HG: Intro and Festival
I'm Marjorie Fiddler, I live in Seattle, and although I've belonged to this
list since the beginning, I've procrastinated right past the introductions
part until now. I was at Saint-Chartier in 1988 while on a camping trip in
France and fell in love with the hurdy-gurdy immediately. I didn't have an
instrument until five years ago, when I discovered that Alden and Cali
Hackmann had organized a festival here in Seattle where Pierre Imbert would
be teaching. Beginners were welcome, and I only needed a hurdy-gurdy to be a
beginner - fortunately I was able to locate a beautiful Jean-Noel Grandchamps
instrument. By the next year several of us signed on to make sure that the
festival would continue, and plans are now finalized for the fifth annual
Over the Water Hurdy-Gurdy Festival and French Dance Weekend, from
September19 -24, 2000.
First and most important, you are all invited to come and join us - and if
not this year, then soon. We offer five days of classes and workshops for
hurdy-gurdy players, and a long weekend of Frence dance workshops for
dancers, with everyone joining together for the Saturday evening "Bal Folk".
This year's instructors include Marcello Bono, Pierre Imbert and Cliff
Stapleton for hurdy-gurdy, and Marilyn Smith for dance. We're looking forward
to another wonderful event!
The festival is held at Fort Flagler State Park, a former US Army fort
guarding the entrance to Puget Sound, and getting there involves a ferry ride
and a drive from Seattle. We are in the process of sending out flyers, but
in the meanwhile more information can be found at our Web site -
http://members.aol.com/vielle/
I was just at the NEFFA festival in Boston, and it was wonderful to meet
other players who were there, and to put a few more names and faces together!
I look forward to meeting more of you - whether on the list or in person.
Regards,
Marjorie
_______________________________________________
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 21:18:30 -0400
From: Christina Wright <ccwright _at_ halcyon.com>
Subject: HG: Re: HG: Broecker book translation - volunteers?
Dear Alden,
I'm up for typing in at least one chapter.
Chris
_______________________________________________
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 22:52:15 -0400
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: HG: Re: HG: Re: HG: Broecker book translation - volunteers?
--- Christina Wright <ccwright _at_ halcyon.com> wrote:
> I'm up for typing in at least one chapter.
Yeah, me too --- & html if needed
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online and get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/
_______________________________________________
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 01:03:16 -0400
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: HG: Re: HG: Re: HG: Broecker book translation - volunteers?
Dear Chris,
>Dear Alden,
> I'm up for typing in at least one chapter.
Great, we'll have some packets to hand out at the meeting.
Our lawn is getting long. Is the mower available? ;-) Maybe we could get
it on Wed.
Alden
_______________________________________________
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 01:05:54 -0400
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: HG: Oops, sorry...
Apologies:
The Listmaster should be more careful about doing a reply - I thought Chris
had sent that to me personally. Bother.
Alden the Embarrassed Listmaster
_______________________________________________
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 02:17:22 -0400
From: Oliver Seeler <oseeler _at_ mcn.org>
Subject: HG: Re: HG: Re: HG: Re: HG: Broecker book translation - volunteers?
At 01:03 AM 4/28/00 -0400, you wrote:
>Our lawn is getting long. Is the mower available? ;-) Maybe we could get
>it on Wed.
Can I please have it over here in Albion, California on Friday? With an
operator would be nice .... Thanks. Oh, by the way, I'm fluent in German
and so perhaps I can help with that aspect, if you haven't yet found
anyone to translate the supplement, etc.
Regards,
Oliver
Oliver Seeler
Director, Nova Albion Research
oseeler _at_ mcn.org & bagpipes _at_ mcn.org
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~ recommended by The History Channel ~
_______________________________________________
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 02:40:12 -0400
From: Marcello Bono <ghironda _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: HG: Re: HG: Wheel banding
Hi Nick
I agree with other people suggestion about wheel; don't forget to make a
tilted cut where the strip is jointed.
>While I'm here, what would be a suitable finish to apply to the instrument
>as a whole, oils, spirit, shellac?
I love to put shellac as preparation, then I rub with wax and pumice powder
ciao
Marcello
_______________________________________________
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 03:30:49 -0400
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: HG: Lawn mowing and translations
Oliver said:
>>Our lawn is getting long. Is the mower available? ;-) Maybe we could get
>>it on Wed.
>
>Can I please have it over here in Albion, California on Friday? With an
>operator would be nice .... Thanks. Oh, by the way, I'm fluent in German
>and so perhaps I can help with that aspect, if you haven't yet found
>anyone to translate the supplement, etc.
I'll take you up on that. If we can get it done, I'll even see if we can
come mow your lawn ;-) ;-)
Alden
_______________________________________________
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 17:11:53 -0400
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: HG: used copy of Bröcker book available
Dear List members,
With all this talk of the Bröcker book, I thought I would mention that
there is a used copy available from the Von Huene workshop. I don't
remember how much it was, but it was not cheap.
For more information, contact Eric Haas, eric _at_ vonhuene.com.
Alden
_______________________________________________
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 20:07:41 -0400
From: Dave Praties <dave _at_ dpraties.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: HG: Varnishing
Hi all,
Nick raised the question of suitable varnish for his instrument. This
problem has vexed me for some time, and in trying to improve my
varnishing skills, and have tried many different types and
combinations. On the whole, I like shellac and use the white variety
for the first coat, and orange for subsequent ones. However, this
does not bring out the best in the wood, due to the refractive index
of the shellac being different from that of the wood. ( Yes, wood
does have a refractive index!). I have had better results using rosin
oil as a ground, and then continuing with shellac. I have tried
traditional oil varnish, but I am simply not skilled in its use yet, and
the process gets frustrating, messy and expensive.
A colleague of mine, Ephraim Seggerman, has produced various
publications on the choice and use of traditional varnishes, and if
any body is interested, I could post them here on this site.
Cheers,
Dave Praties. ( an almost silent, but keen list member)
_______________________________________________
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 02:05:46 -0400
From: george swallow <swallow _at_ beechcottage98.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: HG: Re: Wheel banding
Nick Nourse
If you can't find hose clips of large diameter in your local hardware store,
I recommend my solution of using a strip of about 26swg steel or brass tape.
I got mine from a building skip, and it was the kind of tape that holds
pallets of house bricks together.
If you fold the ends over once or twice, then drill holes for a nut and
bolt(about 2BA will do) , it does the same job as a hose clip. Or you can
use both, cut the hose clip in two, straighten the cut ends and silver
solder them to the tape.
Of course, freshly steamed holly and steel tape in contact with it overnight
will make a fine old mess, so leave enough on for truing up!
George Swallow
_______________________________________________
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