Hurdy-gurdy Mailing List - September 2000
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Our deepest thanks to Maxou Heintzen for this fabulous photograph, taken at Saint-Cloud near Paris in 1957 by an unknown photographer.
The following are the archives of the Hurdy-gurdy Mailing List, sponsored by Alden and Cali Hackmann of Olympic Musical Instruments.
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 22:16:17 +0200
From: Ernst Kainzmeier <kainer _at_ chello.at>
Subject: [HG] unknown HG-species
Hello!
A few days ago I saw a TV documentation about cooperation in music and dance
in the Austrian-Czech border region.
There were czech musicians and one of the folks play an very strange
instrument, it looks like something between an small cello and an large
viola... and there was a wheel and a crank on it, so it probably could be a
HG. But there were no keys! It has 3 strings. The guy carried it on a
shoulder strap and play it like other stringed instruments on the finger
board but instead using a bow he turn the wheel with the right hand! I never
saw an instrument like this one before! Any ideas what that could be?
The folks play also other strange (but known) instruments like a
"trumscheit" or "scheitholt" -unfortunately i don't know the English name.
It was one of the very rare interesting telecasts about music and dance and
with nice vews from the landscape in northern Austria and southern Moravia
and Bohemia!
Many regards!
Ernst
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 14:41:37 -0700
From: R. T. Taylor <rtaylor _at_ amp.csulb.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] unknown HG-species
There are a few old illustrations of instruments that have a wheel and a
fret board. But I do not know if these illustrations are created by errors
or the imagination of the painter or were actual instruments. You can see
many old illustrations that are not technically correct or playable
instruments.. So maybe this could be an invention of the painter.
On the other hand it is logical that some strange people created a variety
of stringed instruments that used a wheel to bow strings. I am one of those
strange people.
Before I got my first hurdy gurdy I tried using a wheel to bow other
instruments including dulcimers and a strange instrument form India called a
Bul Bul. That instrument has typewriter keys that press some metal against
the fret board. I was desperate to play a Hurdy Gurdy so I had to invent
something that I could substitute until I could get a real instrument.
There is a company called Lark in the morning that was trying to sell an
instrument that they called " DulciGurdy"
http://www.larkinam.com/
It was a small guitar shaped instrument with a wheel and crank and a fret
board instead of keys. It was strung just like an American Appalachian
dulcimer with 3 strings. It was very quiet. The instrument that you
described must have had a stronger sound.
More about Czech Hurdy Gurdys.......
In 1989 a family of Czech Hurdy Gurdy players were at St. Chartier. They
preformed a little and also had a stand. Unfortunately I did not get a
chance to really inspect their instruments. They were quite unusual.
They had at least 3 sizes, soprano, alto and base. But the most interesting
part was how it was played. As I recall they had a system of keys that were
pushed down against the string using a kind of rocking key or lever, similar
to a piano. And they played these instruments standing up. The instruments
were placed on tables and you played it like a piano.
I would like to find anyone that has pictures or some recordings of these
instruments. I do not know if they were inventions of this family or if they
have some kind of historical use in the Czech area.
r.t.
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 00:06:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] unknown HG-species
RT said:
> There are a few old illustrations of instruments that have a wheel and a
> fret board. But I do not know if these illustrations are created by errors
> or the imagination of the painter or were actual instruments. You can see
> many old illustrations that are not technically correct or playable
> instruments.. So maybe this could be an invention of the painter.
As far as I know it was a real instrument, called the Strohfiddle. I
think it's shown in Praetorius, on the same page as the HG.
Like the Dulcigurdy (which you mentioned) it would suffer from variations
in string pressure on the wheel when the chanter strings are
shortened. We all know how awful a HG can sound if there's just a little
too much string pressure. The problem would get worse the higher the
string was stopped, so the practical range would be fairly limited. This
may be why they never caught on much. ;-)
Alden
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 00:42:23 -0700
From: R. T. Taylor <rtaylor _at_ amp.csulb.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] unknown HG-species
From: "Alden Hackmann" <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
>
> As far as I know it was a real instrument, called the Strohfiddle. I
> think it's shown in Praetorius, on the same page as the HG.
>
Not to be confused with a " Stroh Fiddle".
I think Stroh is a German company that made violins that have a unique
sound because they have a small diaphragm device on the bridge, attached to
an megaphone. You can find them in Transylvania and sometimes at Lark in
the Morning, very over priced at $2500.00 US.
I just had to have a excuse to type Transylvania again.
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 12:04:25 +0200
From: B&D Renaudin <d140557 _at_ club-internet.fr>
Subject: Re: [HG] St. Chartier 2001,
Hi happy bourrée grinders,
george swallow a *crit :
> > This is (now) quite upsetting. In 1989 I visited both Montlucon and Clermont
> Ferrand and didn't see a single hurdy gurdy.
> > But with two small children, I wasn't looking properly.
:-))) I live and work there, no one cares about "local" trad music, it's
only "folklore", boring stuff for old people! You'll never hear any on
the radio for instance... St Chartier is a virtual universe!!!
Dominique Renaudin
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 16:43:43 +0200
From: C.Westbroek <bourree _at_ hetnet.nl>
Subject: Re: [HG] unknown HG-species
Hello RT
In 1989 I wasn't in St. Chartier but a friend of mine was and he took some
pictures of these Czech instruments.
I'll try to scan them and then e-mail to you (if i can find them).
Cor Westbroek.
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 16:32:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] unknown HG-species
You get to type Trans(etc) and I get to be pedantic
again.;-) Stroh fiddle is a pretty cool looking
instrument. It's like a fiddle neck and a Victrola
horn mounted on a small coffee can (the old shallow
type). They were invented for channeling the sound
directly into a microphone. Not a good sound, but
comparable to the recording and radio technology of
the day. I believe it actually was a phonograph needle
at the end of the megaphone. ...One of those things I
intend to make (after I finish this next gurdy, and
the Xarana, and the 2 or 3 Mt Dulcimers,etc,etc).
Later
the other RT
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 11:00:39 +0100
From: Brian Tilley <briantilley _at_ neston1.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [HG] unknown HG-species
Richard Taylor was accurate in his description of the Stroviol (correct
name), I play one in a ceilidh band. The bridge is mounted on a rocking
pivot and lever which is connected to a 4.5'' diaphragm for sound generation
which is then channelled via a large horn to the audience and a small horn
to the players ear.
They were made in a range of sizes - violin, viola, cello & bass and also
variations of other instruments, banjo & guitar etc.
A friend of mine is compiling information for a book about the instruments
and company. If anyone has any information or possesses a banjo instrument
he would be pleased to heat from them, he is not on the web and I would be
happy to provide initial contact.
It was great to meet some ho the HG clan at St Chartier - even though the
weather was not what we have come to expect.
Brian
Brian Tilley (not Bryan Tolley!!!!!!)
http://www.neston1.freeserve.co.uk
French Music and Dance Session in Chippenham
Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 10:43:58 -0400
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: [HG] Link
Hi,
Here is a nice photo,
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/RNiepold/vielfrbi.htm
Henry
Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 18:03:00 +0000
From: jenlord <jenlord _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: [HG] Over the Water festival
9/3/00
Hello fellow travelers!
Hot tip on transportation from airport to festival:
Went today to Sausalito Art festival, met an artist from Port Townsend
(Beverly Saito), which is, apparently, a hotbed of tango. Asked how to
get there. She suggested Pennco, I guess a cab company that she uses. 1
888 673 6626. They will meet you at the airport and take you to Fort
Flagler, about a 2 1/2 hour trip. $60 one way, $80 r/t, she thinks. She
was not real optimistic/encouraging re hitching.
I arrive Seattle airport 9/19 _at_ 0905 am. I'd like to get to the fort no
later than 1 pm to help with set up. If anyone wants to split the ride
one-way, that would be ducky with me!
the intrepid Mr Clapp
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 13:56:31 -0700
From: R. T. Taylor <rtaylor _at_ amp.csulb.edu>
Subject: [HG] Stro Vielle ?????
How did we get started on this topic? It must be my fault. Sorry.
But now that Brian continues the discussion.......
Check out the vielle that has this unusual diaphragm and horn.
This is from Ruprecht Niepold's web pages.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/RNiepold/vielfrbi.htm
Premiers essais d'amplification de vielles: le chevalet des chanterelles a
été adapté pour transmettre les vibrations sur un petit cône en métal
lui-même formant la base d'une trompette. Il paraîtrait que les résultats ne
sont pas fameux, sans compter que l'instrument devient difficile à manier.
I will translate this for you.
" A picture is worth a thousand words, look at the pictures !"
r.t.
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 14:05:09 -0700
From: R. T. Taylor <rtaylor _at_ amp.csulb.edu>
Subject: [HG] and one more thing.......r.t.
I forgot that that Mr. Niepold uses frames on his web page.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/RNiepold/vielfrbi.htm
Click on this link to see the vielle with the diaphragm.
vielle trompette
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 19:00:23 -0700
From: george swallow <swallow _at_ beechcottage98.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [HG] Link
Quite so. Pity about the chairs though.
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 21:02:20 +0200
From: Ernst Kainzmeier <kainer _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] Stro Vielle ?????
Hello R.T. and all,
originally I started the discussion with my question about the unknown
czech instrument I saw on TV. Then Alden brought the "Strohfiddle" into
the discussion....
But now I'm almost sure it must be a form of the dulcigurdy. I saw some
examples on musicraft homepage http://www.musicrafts.com/dulcigurdy.html
and it seems to me similar although the instrument I saw had an guitar
(or cello) body.
Ernst
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 22:09:56 -0400
From: Marie Papineau <mariep _at_ abacom.com>
Subject: [HG] New member who has a question about HG in D
Hi everyone,
I am a new member. My name is Marie Papineau. I live in Québec,
Canada. Someone is now making a hurdy-gurdy for me. My HG will be
ready at the beginning of December for my birthday, so I hope! I play
the piano and have been attracted by hurdy-gurdies for about twenty
years (I am 42). I sing also and play tradional music with a band.
I have a problem to solve about my upcoming HG. Because I sing and play
with other musicians (such as an accordeonist who plays with an
accordeon tuned in D), I want my hurdy-gurdy to sound in D. I mean, I
would like to plays most of my tunes in D major or Dminor. How could I
have that done? The person who is making my HG says he could do a
"Bourbonnais" tuning. I don't quite understand what it means. Would it
also be possible just to tune the HG differently to have it sound one
key higher than usual? Could that produce problems?
Can anyone of you help me with that? I would like to be prepared for my
meeting with the maker of my HG. I meet with him on Thursday evening
this week.
Thanks in advance and hello to all of you!
Marie
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 23:10:48 -0400
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [HG] New member who has a question about HG in D
Bonjour Marie,
The HG could be tuned in any key you like , as long as you have the proper
strings.
The principal tunings are the Classique ( or Baroque or Auvergnat ) in G
with
two chanterelles on the same note ( ... a G ) , the other popular ( more and
more popular
in fact ) in the Bourbonnais , with the chanterelles in D but one octave
apart. The
Hungarian tuning is in A and the the Haute Bretagne and tuning is "
somewhere
around F "<g>
Now there are ( generally <g>
) two drones , G and C for the G tuning , so
officially
you can play in G and C but in real life it is more practical to play in C
because
you have a few low notes under the C .
It is officially possible to play in G on the second octave , but in real
life the
quality of the sound is not as good ( exept on very high quality instruments
).
BTW, who is making your instrument ?
Henry
Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 06:49:35 GMT
From: Marcello Bono <ghironda _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] New member who has a question about HG in D
Hi Marie
>
The person who is making my HG says he could do a
>
"Bourbonnais" tuning. I don't quite understand what it means.
It means all of your strings will be tuned in D (not the same D, of course
:o) . Actually a "bourbonnais" HG is a G instrument because the diatonic row
of keys plays a G scale, but you can play in D as well, and the drone
strings will be ok in both D and G major and minor.
>
Would it
>
also be possible just to tune the HG differently to have it sound one
>
key higher than usual?
of course it's possible, you just have to use the proper string gauge.
By the way, a D hurdy-gurdy is "high" enough so if you want to play in (esp)
E or F try to use bigger melody strings gauge, tuning them
one octave below than treble D of a "Boubonnaise" gurdy. (something like 95
- 100 gut string could be appropriate as melody E or F string).
ciao
Marcello
_________________________________________________________________________
Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 13:55:37 -0400
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: [HG] "Real D tuning "
Let's say it that way : the traditional HG keyboard is made to play a
chromatic
scale starting from G (open string) . If another gauge of string is
used
the keyboard will be in a transposition mode , the most popular
alternative is
to tune the open string tuning is D , in that setting the easy diatonic
scale
( bottom row of keys ) will be in G .
If you want that diatonic scale in D , you would need a string gauge
that can be
tuned in A . It just happens to be the Hungarian tuning ... Are you
there R.T. ?
Henry
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 14:18:57 +0200
From: C.Westbroek <bourree _at_ hetnet.nl>
Subject: Re: [HG] New member who has a question about HG in D
Salut Marie,
A lot of answers to questions about hurdy gurdy's can be found in a book:
Philippe Destrem and Volker Heidemann : The Hurdy Gurdy, adjustment and
maintenance.
It's published by Amta in 1993, ISBN:2-9507682-0-2
http://www.spielleute.de/ is the adress where you can order this book.
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 11:21:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] New member who has a question about HG in D
You can also get this great book (no HG player should be without it) at
Dusty Strings in Seattle, 206=634-1656.
Alden F.M. Hackmanndarkstar _at_ u.washington.edu
Web: http://www.hurdygurdy.com/hg/hghome.html
"Beati illi qui in circulum circumeunt, fient enim magnae rotae."
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 20:25:57 +0100
From: David Gorman <davidag _at_ britishlibrary.net>
Subject: [HG] hello
Hello,
I live in London, work in a second-hand bookshop and am training to
become a graphic designer.
I first became interested in the hurdy-gurdy about a year and a half ago
when I heard Philip Martin playing outside Canterbury Cathedral in
England. I was already an early music enthusiast, primarily interested in
choral music, and the hurdy-gurdy obviously fitted into and expanded this
interest. Hearing the hurdy-gurdy also re-awakened my interest in
traditional/folk music. Since then I have been seeking out recordings of
music featuring the hurdy-gurdy and have built up a small collection of
material. I do not play the hurdy-gurdy but I can imagine that before
very long I'll want to start playing as well as listening. At the moment
I want to get in contact with other people who are interested in this
wonderful instrument, find out more about its history and to hear it
played live. I also like listening to blues, jazz, soul, country and some
rock music but my interest in the hurdy-gurdy is becoming almost
obsessive as many of my friends will testify!
Best wishes,
David Gorman.
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 12:49:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: SB/JW <duodrone _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] hello
Hello David,
I read our email to the hg list. I am currently touring the USA but I live
in London. I will be back in London the 5th of October. You can contact me
at 0208 986 0531 or j.stapleton _at_ talk21.com. I look forward to hearing from
you and perhaps answer some of your questions.
Cheers,
Cliff Stapleton
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 21:18:57 +0100
From: David Bawden <David.Bawden _at_ btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] hello
Welcome David!
I'm another of the London contingent and (slowly) learning (I am
practising Cliff, honest). If you work in London you might be interested
in a gig coming up on 21st September at the Islington Folk Club featuring
Citizen Camembert. They are a Brighton based band complete with
hurdy-gurdy, bagpipes, bouzouki etc. I spotted them on one of the dance
stages at St Chartier this year and they sounded good. It's at 'The
Horseshoe' Clerkenwell Close, London EC1, and starts at 8pm. Cliff's band
Continental Drift played there a few months ago, so it is worth keeping
an eye out for bands with HGs, though those without are also worth
watching! (if you are thinking of going, E-mail
martin.nail _at_ ukonliine.co.uk beforehand to make you a member of the club).
Do you know about On Bouge? This is french dance club which meets once a
month in the Welsh Centre on Grays Inn Road, I think on the first Monday.
It starts with a dance and music workshop and finishes with a general
dance. Also there is a French music session at The George at London
Bridge, I think every 3rd Monday of the month (Rose, is that right?)
See you around
Dave
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 20:35:16 GMT
From: Tom Evans <charloscove _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: [HG] Hurdy Gurdy for Sale
I have a brand new Olympic Minstrel Model Hurdy Gurdy for sale. It is less
than a month old. It comes with an "S" crank, extended keyboard and soft
cordura case. I used very poor financial judgement and received this less
than a month after our first baby was born. I failed to realize the
financial implications of our tiny new bundle of joy. That and the fact
that I do not have any time to learn this new instrument. Some people are
telling me that I will not have time for the next 18 years...some even say
25-30. : ) I doubt that and I assume that I will get another one at some
point but for now being on a very limited budget I would like to sell it to
someone who has more time but just as much enthusiasm about it. It
certainly is a wonderful instrument and to those out there waiting for
theirs from Alden and Cali I will certainly say that you will be more than
satisfied. Besides being great builders they are the most helpful people
around. If anyone is interested or has more questions please let me know.
Thanks!
Tom
_________________________________________________________________________
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 22:03:28 +0100
From: David Gorman <davidag _at_ britishlibrary.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] hello
Dear Dave,
Thanks for the information about the gig and how to get in. I'll
definitely try to be there. I had heard about On Bouge and will try to
get along some time. Thanks also for the info about the George Inn. In
fact I went there last Monday, having been told there was a good chance
of hearing hurdy-gurdies being played. Actually, there was just about
everything apart from a hurdy-gurdy but it was a good night out anyway (I
think it's the first Monday in the month, not the third).
Anyway, I'll probably run into you at a gig sometime.
Best wishes,
David.
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 14:28:27 -0700
From: Dominic A White <ick _at_ awenet.com>
Subject: [HG] Dusty Strings
Is any one (besides Cliff) going to see Cliff Stapleton at Dusty strings in
September? I live only 15 minutes walking distance from there and was
wondering if anyone wanted to meet and maybe get together for some beers
before the show so I can put faces to names. There's a place across the
street called the Dubliner which pours a mean Guiness!
Let me know!
Dominic
Dominic A. White www.awenet.com/~ick
MIDNIGHT PASS www.midnight-pass.com
"If I were married to you, I'd put poison in your coffee."
- - - Lady Astor (to Winston Churchill)
"If you were my wife, I'd drink it."
- - - Winston Churchill, in reply
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 00:08:16 -0700
From: casey clapp <jenlord _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Dusty Strings
when is that again? casey
Dominic A White wrote:
> Is any one (besides Cliff) going to see Cliff Stapleton at Dusty strings in
> September? I live only 15 minutes walking distance from there and was
> wondering if anyone wanted to meet and maybe get together for some beers
> before the show so I can put faces to names. There's a place across the
> street called the Dubliner which pours a mean Guiness!
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 09:07:53 -0400
From: Marie Papineau <mariep _at_ abacom.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] New member who has a question about HG in D
Dear C.,
Thank you so very much. I just ordered the book, well I hope I did. The
site was in German and I don't know a word of German. When I finally found
the book, I did my best to order it! It seemed to have worked.
In the meantime, I'm going to have my HG in D simply made one tone higher
than a HG in C. I am looking forward to getting it (only in December...).
Thanks again.
Marie
"C.Westbroek" a écrit :
> Salut Marie,
> A lot of answers to questions about hurdy gurdy's can be found in a book:
> Philippe Destrem and Volker Heidemann : The Hurdy Gurdy, adjustment and
> maintenance.
> It's published by Amta in 1993, ISBN:2-9507682-0-2
> http://www.spielleute.de/ is the adress where you can order this book.
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 09:11:29 -0400
From: Marie Papineau <mariep _at_ abacom.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] New member who has a question about HG in D
Dear Alden,
Oh boy, when I read your message, I had already tried to order it from the
German site, which I am not sure was successful... I'll give it a month, and
if I don't get it, I'll try with Dusty Strings!
In the meantime, I'll have my hurdy-gurdy made in D, just by having it one key
higher than a HG in C.
Thanks,
Marie
Alden Hackmann a écrit :
> You can also get this great book (no HG player should be without it) at
> Dusty Strings in Seattle, 206=634-1656.
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 09:25:51 -0400
From: Marie Papineau <mariep _at_ abacom.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] New member who has a question about HG in D
Hi Marcello,
Thanks. I'll have my HG tuned one key higher than the usual HG in C. Henry was
telling me it is a Hungrian tuning. I look very much forward to receiving it!
Marie
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 06:58:05 -0700
From: Dominic A White <ick _at_ awenet.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Dusty Strings
>
when is that again? casey
>
Saturday September 16th. 7 pm. Tickets are $10 and available at Dusty
strings. I think the site http://members.aol.com/vielle/concerts.html tells
how you can order them by mail.
I plan on being at the Dubliner around 4:30, but that's just the way I am.
Dominic
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 19:37:48 +0100
From: Rose Daly <rose.daly _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] hello
Hello David B, David G and everyone
It's the other way round, the George is first Monday in the
month, On Bouge is third Monday. The George is better for
players, On Bouge is really a dance workshop.
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 15:33:33 -0300
From: kaiser <kmkaiser _at_ usp.br>
Subject: Re: [HG] unknown HG-species
> I just had to have a excuse to type Transylvania again.
Dear mr. Taylor:
I was wandering if you are not hungarian...
Because if you are, I would like to ask for some help.
Last week the hungarian scouts association finally accepted me in
their student's program. It means (if you understand my english) that
I'll have one year of culture and language classes in Hungary. I am very
happy with this possibility, and will be there at january. My interests
are early music and instruments. Here in Brasil I make harpsichords
(actually I study instrument-making as an apprentice) and study fine
arts in the university. I was in Hungary for a month last year, but
could not find the right places and people to talk about early music.
If I understood, they don't have makers of this kind of instruments in
Budapest.
I really would like to spend my time there working with makers, if
possible. Do you know people there? Do anyone know about makers in
Budapest? I'd really appreciate some help. I refuse to believe that all
makers live in transylvania...
Marcos Kaiser.
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 18:59:08 +0100
From: David Bawden <David.Bawden _at_ btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] unknown HG-species
Hello Marcus
There were a couple of Budapest makers at St Chartier. They were:
Balazs Nagy
Letjo u.12/b
1124 Budapest
tel: 36 1 319 84 59
e-mail: taltos _at_ mail.datanet.hu
website: www.datanet.hu/~taltos
Bela Szerenyi
Fergeteg u. 11 - 1037
Budapest
tel: 361 250 79 88
e-mail: koncz _at_ bille.hu
Balazs was showing French style lute back hurdy-gurdies, but I know that he
also makes Hungarian style hurdy gurdies. He has a nice website.
The advantage of Hungarian hurdy-gurdies is that they are compared to
French style ones. When I enquired of Balazs a couple of years ago, the
Hungarian model was about £450. A large bass instrument was about £900 was
the French style lute back. The disadvantage that I could see was the
tuning - in A, thought he could make the bass model in D.
There were other Hungarian luthiers of other instruments at St Chartier as
well - I can find their names if you are interested
David
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 20:45:04 +0100
From: Neil Brook <hurdy.gurdy _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: [HG] Introduction
Dear members,
I believe it is customary to give an introduction on joining the mailing
list .
My name is Neil Brook and I have been making and playing the hurdy-gurdy for
some 15 years. I also build early fretted instruments for Northern
Renaissance Instruments of Manchester.
At the moment I am a firefighter in Lancashire Fire and Rescue Service but
before that, Iworked with Roger Bucknall at Fylde Instruments in Kirkham
Lancashire. Before that, I was a Shipwright in the Royal Navy so I have
never been far away from timber.
I have no great knowledge of Hurdy-gurdy history preferring to treat it as a
wonderful instrument on which to play whatever suits the mood- and the
drones of course.
I have built a wide variety of gurdies and come across just about every
possible construction problem. There are a whole load of interrelated
parameters involved and it is very satisfying to get it right.
Anyone who is interested is welcome to look at my humble website
http://freespace.virgin.net/hurdy.gurdy
Thanks to Dave Praties for informing me of the existence of the mailing
list.
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 21:05:42 +0100
From: Rose Daly <rose.daly _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: [HG] Hello
Hello Marcos
There was a Hungarian maker at Saint Chartier called Bela Szerenyi
Fergeteg u. 11 - 1037 Budapest Tel/fax 361 250 79 88 e-mail:
koncz _at_ bille.hu
He makes hurdy gurdies and other instruments.
Rose
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 02:47:38 +0100
From: Dave Praties <dave _at_ dpraties.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [HG] Introduction ,Neil Brook
Hello all,
May I as a very quiet member, take it upon myself to welcome Neil
Brook to the list. You will find him a great source of good
information about hurdy gurdy building. I would also recomend any
one thinking of buying an instrument to try Neils. Having seen,
heard and played them, they really do rival the big ( and expensive
) names here in Europe.
Welcome Neil, and although I rarely say anything on this site, I
listen hard !
Dave Praties UK
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 15:36:38 +0100
From: Neil Brook <hurdy.gurdy _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: [HG] Archives
Hello again members.
It would be good to get up to date with the flow of conversation on the list
. Thanks Alden & Cali for making the archive available up to February.
If anyone out there has a file of communications from then to today, I would
appreciate a copy sent to hurdy.gurdy _at_ virgin.net
Thanks
Neil.
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:21:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] Archives
Neil,
I have all the archives, waiting for me to put them on the site. After
the festival I'll have a little more time to do that ;-)
Alden F.M. Hackmanndarkstar _at_ u.washington.edu
Web: http://www.hurdygurdy.com/hg/hghome.html
"Beati illi qui in circulum circumeunt, fient enim magnae rotae."
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 08:32:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: [HG] Bröcker translation progress
As you all may remember from several months ago, a project is underway to
type up an English translation of Marianne Bröcker's "Die Drehleier". A
good portion of the initial typing work is complete. Thank you!!
Unfortunately I've misplaced one of my little notes, so I've lost track of
who has a particular section of the text. The section begins with "The
Social Position of the Hurdy-gurdy", and comprises pages 349-391 of the
original text. If you have this section, could you please contact
me? Thank you.
For those who are waiting to read this marvel, we'll have it on the web as
soon as we get permissions from the author and publisher.
Alden F.M. Hackmanndarkstar _at_ u.washington.edu
Web: http://www.hurdygurdy.com/hg/hghome.html
"Beati illi qui in circulum circumeunt, fient enim magnae rotae."
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 21:50:36 +0300
From: Juulia Salonen <ottilia _at_ saunalahti.fi>
Subject: [HG] introduction
As I am a new member on the list, I would like to introduce myself:
I am (mr.) Esa Mäkinen, a 36 year old waldorf-school class-teacher from
Vantaa, Finland. I've bee playing some three years solo or with a band.,
mostly Scandinavian or East-European folk-music. There are some 12-20 hgs
in Finland, but less than 10 are played properly, I think I'm still the
only one, who has hg as main-intrument, not beside guitar, violin etc.
I play a Groddalira, Swedish rustic hg-model from 17th century (Swedish
groups Garmarna and Hedningarna use similar, but chromatic models). Mine
is diatonic with melody string in D and it has 1 bass drone + 1 trompette
in D, E, G or A. It was made by Swedish maker Leif Eriksson in 1998. Quite
recently I added an extra bass-string to hit with a drumstick, that string
is not touching the wheel. This feature gives me possibility to play
drone+ trompette + string-drum = I have a quite strange but effective
percussion instrument.
Later this autumn I will get a new hg from Nagy Balaszs. He is making for
me a "mongrel": hungarian chromatic model with french trompette-system.
Picture of our band "Ihtiriekko" can be seen at
http://www.nettilinja.fi/~pniikko/kuviamm99.htm
Just roll down in that page, there are several other images also.
Esa Mäkinen,
Vantaa, Finland
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 20:26:07 +0100
From: Neil Brook <hurdy.gurdy _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Archives
Thanks for that Alden- It all takes time.
Thanks also to Ernst Kainzmeier who has kindly supplied the archives I
requested. Hopefully I can find the time to read them all soon there are
apparently 404 of them ! It's good to talk!!
Neil
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:39:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] Archives
March and April archives are up. May, June, July, and August are waiting
for editing.
Alden F.M. Hackmanndarkstar _at_ u.washington.edu
Web: http://www.hurdygurdy.com/hg/hghome.html
"Beati illi qui in circulum circumeunt, fient enim magnae rotae."
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 02:31:04 -1000
From: don <donvlax _at_ maui.net>
Subject: [HG] Maui Hurdy-Gurdy Festival
Hi- My name is Don V. Lax, I'm a professional violinist and a novice
hurdy-gurdy player living and working on Maui. As far as I know I'm the
only player of a hurdy-gurdy on this island. Since acquiring a hurdy
gurdy from Helmut Gotschy, I've been teaching myself to play from books
and CD's. I appreciate greatly the work of Alden and Aileen in creating
internet resources for the hurdy-gurdy. Working 7 nights a week as a
violinist I'm not able to get off the island to visit other
hurdy-gurdyists, so I've decided , with Helmut's help, to bring people
here. It is, after all, one of the most beautiful and inspiring places
in the world. What better place to have a hurdy-gurdy festival?
So just to let folks know-
March 7-11, 2001 we will be hosting a Hurdy-Gurdy Workshop and festival
on Maui. Helmut Gotschy, Matthias Loibner, and Riccardo Delfino will be
teaching courses. For more info, please visit this web-page:
http://www.mauiviolin.com/Hurdy%20gurdy%20festival
Thanks- and I'm looking forward to meeting some of you soon...
Don
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 02:38:51 -1000
From: don <donvlax _at_ maui.net>
Subject: [HG] sorry I meant Cali, not Aileen
Please excuse my misnaming in the last post. It's late and I don't know
where "Aileen" came from...
Don
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 08:18:18 -0600
From: arle lommel <fenevad _at_ ttt.org>
Subject: [HG] Balazs Nagy HG
Hi,
has anyone bought a HG from Balazs Nagy (in Hungary)? I seem to
recall seeing something from someone about him on this list before. I
am considering the purchase of one of his bass tekerõ models. He has
been most helpful to me (especially as I speak Hungarian with him),
but I would like independent confirmation of the quality of his
instruments. I have little doubt of it, but just want to make sure.
Thanks,
Arle Lommel
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 11:38:11 -0700
From: george swallow <swallow _at_ beechcottage98.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [HG] Introduction
Welcome aboard, although I thought you as a pro would already be a member of
the group. Of course, no-one except Alden knows who is in or out. I think
this newsgroup has more or less eclipsed the old HGS newsletter that went
into decline.
I think I may have hit one problem with my hg-under-construction that you
have never met before; as a prelude to varnishing my viola, I thought I
would try out the potassium silicate stuff I got from NRI, and I did it on
my hg first. The result was awful, the mahogany went black and the whole lot
dried opaque/white like a coat of cement. I am now busy with the scraper
getting it off as nothing will dissolve it. It will certainly not be used on
anything else, although I probably did something wrong with it.
I have read your tip of the month on the chanterelles and noted it for the
future. I was planning on using wool straight off the sheep, or rather off
the barbed wire, as a first try. I have already got the idea that as soon as
my hg is finished, my troubles start!
Very best wishes
George Swallow
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 17:07:39 +0100
From: Neil Brook <hurdy.gurdy _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Introduction
Hi George good to hear from you. Perhaps Alden would consider posting a list
of members - maybe it is not protocol.
I too was seduced once by Ephs water glass stuff and had just as much
trouble getting it off as you seem to be having. The solution seems to be
the solution! Thinning it down with water makes it easier to use but I have
not bothered with it since.
Nowadays, Itend to use a thin coat of acid catalyst lacquer as a sealer. It
seems totally inert and sands down a treat.
The more normal system involves shellac but I'm not keen on the way it gums
up the abrasive.
I am not a fulltime maker yet as the Fire service still has me in its
clutches. Two years to go then we'll see.
Best wishes
Neil
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 10:00:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Introduction
--- george swallow
<swallow _at_ beechcottage98.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> I have already got the idea that as soon as
> my hg is finished, my troubles start!
Hear! Hear! <g>
Roy T.
__________________________________________________
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 12:24:51 -0700
From: Dominic A White <ick _at_ awenet.com>
Subject: [HG] Cliff Stapleton tonight.
I am going to be at a bar across from Dusty Strings where Cliff Stapleton
is playing tonight. I'll be there at 5, so if anyone wants to come and meet
and have Guiness or two before the show, I'd love to meet some people on
the list face to face.
I'll be wearing glasses, shorts, and a green t-shirt.
Dominic
Dominic A. White www.awenet.com/~ick
MIDNIGHT PASS www.midnight-pass.com
"Once I was the jewel of your heart.
Now I'm only semi-precious."
--- Elvis Costello
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 17:10:03 -1000
From: don <donvlax _at_ maui.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Cliff Stapleton tonight.
I'd be there, for sure, but I haven't yet figured out how to walk into my
closet on Maui and walk out the other side n Seattle.
I'm working on it.
Don
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 16:58:37 +0100
From: Neil Brook <hurdy.gurdy _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Introduction
----- Original Message -----
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
>
> Hear! Hear! <g>
>
> Roy T.
>
>
" When you are joyous, look deep into your heart, and you shall find it is
only that which has given you sorrow that is giving you joy.
When you are sorrowful, look again in your heart, and you shall see that in
truth you are weeping for that which has been your delight. "-- Kahlil
Gibran--
It works for me!
Neil ( : ~} )
________________________________________________
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 14:53:02 -0400
From: Judith Lindenau <judith _at_ taar.com>
Subject: [HG] FW: And???
Anybody awake yet out there in Seattle-land?
How was the concert?
judith
Judith Lindenau, CAE, RCE
Traverse Area Association of Realtors
http://www.taar.com
icq 6445710
MAILTO:judith _at_ taar.com
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 12:14:11 -0700
From: Fiddlers <mdfiddler _at_ home.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] FW: And???
The concert was wonderful! Cliff played a lot of his own compositions as
well as lots of traditional tunes to a packed house and then Juan Wijngaard
and Sharon Berman joined him for more and more and more. You'll get a chance
to hear it all yourself soon!
Looking forward to meeting you, Marjy
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 12:16:42 -0700
From: jjandr _at_ netzero.net
Subject: Re: [HG] FW: And???
The concert was wonderful! We had a packed house, and Cliff sold every
single cd he brought. Juan and Sharon played with Cliff on a couple of the
sets, and people were really tapping their toes. Even though it was late,
everyone wanted an encore.
And we get to hear him perform again at the Festival!!
Joanne
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 14:18:33 -0700
From: Christina Wright <ccwright _at_ halcyon.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] FW: And???
Dear Judith,
This is Chris Wright replying. I'm the one who is fortunate
enough to have Cliff, Juan, and Sharon staying at my house this
weekend.
The concert was brilliant, quiet, exuberant, intimate,
relaxed, friendly, and mysterious, but not all at the same time.
Cliff's own compositions, which he composed for particular theatre
pieces and puppet shows, are true tone poems which evoke visual
images, at least for me. Juan and Sharon play together in a very
exciting way, and it was difficult for some of us to stay still in
our chairs. The three of them took the top off the room. Cliff very
sweetly announced that Juan , who had introduced him to the hurdy
gurdy, by the way, had re-taught Cliff a tune which Cliff had himself
composed twenty odd years ago. It was great to hear them play it
together.
The audience was enthusiastic and attentive. Dusty Strings
sold out their venue, which could hold 47 people. The after party
was great, as many of us had not eaten dinner and it turned into an
impromptu Over the Water potluck.
I hope you get other reviews which round out my take on last
night. I don't pretend to offer anything approaching a balanced
picture!
Chris Wright
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 14:39:34 -0600
From: arle lommel <fenevad _at_ ttt.org>
Subject: [HG] tekerõ (Hungarian HG)
Just a comment on Macos' original posting:
>
> I really would like to spend my time there working with makers, if
>
>
possible. Do you know people there? Do anyone know about makers in
>
>
Budapest? I'd really appreciate some help. I refuse to believe that all
>
>
makers live in transylvania...
Actually, the HG was not traditional in Transylvania, so you are less
likely to find makers there than on the Great Hungarian Plains
(Hungarian Alföld) in south and south-east Hungary (where it was
traditional). Budapest is actually quite a good place to find
instruments and Balazs' instruments right now go for about $1,000
U.S. for a normal sized instrument (I don't know the price on the
bass model).
Balazs is a very nice fellow and would probably not mind having you
visit him in Budapest while you are there. I don't know, however,
whether he would be able to do more than just show you around.
-Arle
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 11:26:00 -0700
From: Dominic A White <ick _at_ awenet.com>
Subject: [HG] French Dances In Ballard
Hey All,
I didn't get a flyer at the Cliff Stapleton show (which was fantastic), so
can someone please tell me when the next french dance is in Ballard?
Dominic
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 12:01:31 -0700
From: Dominic A White <ick _at_ awenet.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] French Dances In Ballard
>
The next dance is on October 13, at 7:30 at the Ballard Community Center
>
in Seattle.
>
>
Information on the dances is available at
>
http://members.aol.com/vielle/dances.html.
>
>
>
Alden F.M. Hackmanndarkstar _at_ u.washington.edu
>
Web: http://www.hurdygurdy.com/hg/hghome.html
>
"Beati illi qui in circulum circumeunt, fient enim magnae rotae."
Thank you. Thank you very much.
Dominic
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 13:58:58 -0700
From: sheilaann <sheilaann _at_ email.msn.com>
Subject: [HG] Meeting for players
At the OTW festival this past weekend, a few of the new players tossed
around the idea of getting together every so often to jam together and
learn from one another. Some of these players are in BC, others in
Seattle.
*I* live in Stanwood, WA which is about an hour north of Seattle and
about an hour and 3/4 from Vancouver, so I'm going to offer to host these
meetings if there is enough interest. Please email me privately if you
are interested in participating.
If there is another gathering of players already going on that I am
unaware of, please let me know. Those of us who are fairly new to
playing are HUNGRY to learn and share!
Also, at this time I am looking for an instrument to either purchase or
lease until my own instrument is ready from the Hackmann's (probably next
year). If anyone on the list has any resources, please email me
privately.
Thank you!
Sheila A. Donoghue
sheilaann _at_ msn.com
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 06:17:35 -0400
From: Judith Lindenau <judith _at_ taar.com>
Subject: [HG] Over the Water
The Fifth Annual Over the Water Hurdy Gurdy Festival and
French Dance Weekend was held last week at Ft. Flagler State
Park (Seattle area). It was a great festival...good weather,
great music, and teachers Cliff Stapleton, Pierre Imbert, and
Marcello Bono as well as an impressive lineup of US musicians
and dancers.
Some photos are at this site:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1214689&a=8969629
judith
Judith Lindenau, CAE, RCE
Traverse Area Association of Realtors
http://www.taar.com
icq 6445710
MAILTO:judith _at_ taar.com
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 11:39:40 EDT
From: APeekstok _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] Over the Water
Thanks for the photos, Judith! Maybe I should also note that a new group
photo from this year is up at the OTW website festival page
(http://members.aol.com/vielle/festival.html).
Anna
----
Anna Peekstok
Seattle, WA
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 11:29:50 -0700
From: jjandr _at_ netzero.net
Subject: [HG] Over the Water Lost & Found
A couple of the items left in the Lost & Found are of obvious value. If,
when you unpack, you find you are missing an item, check with me and see
if I have it so I can get it back to you.
Joanne
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 19:05:15 -0400
From: Judith Lindenau <judith _at_ taar.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] Over the Water Lost & Found
Well, I am missing my tape and music from R.T.'s class. Mostly, though,
I am missing what
can't be found in the box: all of you and your wonderful music and
friendship!
Thanks so very much.
judith
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 12:31:03 +0200
From: Neumeier Stefan <Neumeier _at_ geo.wiso.tu-muenchen.de>
Subject: [HG] Is a Regret a kind of dance?
Hello,
I bought a CD called "La Vielle en France" (a nice selection of
traditional tunes played by famous french hurdy gurdy masters). One of
the tunes is called "Regret". Does anyone know if this is a kind of
traditional french dance and if it is how to dance it?
Apart from that I also have a question concerning the adjustment of my
hurdy gurdy. Its about the tenor drone string. Occasionally it did not
start to vibrate in the right manner when starting to turn the wheel.
the result is a very ugly high metallic whistling sound. The funny thing
about it is that this behaviour ceased during the summer but now as it
becomes colder and wetter it starts again. Does someone have a hint how
to stop this?
--
Stefan Neumeier
email: Neumeier _at_ ws.tum.de
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 07:09:50 -0400
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [HG] Is a Regret a kind of dance?
Bonjour,
No, the regret is not a dance , it is a tune that must be played in a sad
,slow, way
to express the souvenir of the village the player left to go earn a living
in Paris.
The regret was mandatory in the players competitions. It is very generally
very difficult
to play well.
Henry
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