Hurdy-gurdy Mailing List - April 2002
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Our deepest thanks to Maxou Heintzen for this fabulous photograph, taken at Saint-Cloud near Paris in 1957 by an unknown photographer.
The following are the archives of the Hurdy-gurdy Mailing List, sponsored by Alden and Cali Hackmann of Olympic Musical Instruments.
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Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:14:18 -0500
From: arle lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] Pegs ,
I think a hacksaw blade would work. You can make nice wooden-bodied
reamers with inset blades using old hacksaw blades with the non-toothed
side cut into a blade (Trevor Robinson describes making them in _The
Amateur Wind Instrument Maker_) and this is really just
a "negative reamer". For limited use I think it would probably work
fine, but if someone wants to do it right the heavier tool steel
would be more likely to give a truly flat and straight edge and would
stand up to more use.
Alden, if you send more info to Juan off list I would be interested
in it as well.
-Arle
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Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 09:46:51 -0800
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: [HG] reamers ,
Here are some home made tools :
http://members.iinet.net.au/~nickl/tools.html#Reamers
OK for instrument making , If one part goes wrong just make another.
But I would not use them for repairs on expensives instruments
Henry
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Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:31:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Pegs ,
--- arle lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org> wrote:
> Alden, if you send more info to Juan off list I would be interested
> in it as well.
>
Yeah, me too.
I would like to mention, Juan, that ebony dust id only desirable on
Ebony pegs, Rosewood on rosewood. The idea is to make the repair
invisible. On lighter woos it looks even worse than wood putty.
Later, Roy T
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Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 18:33:31 -0600
From: Rob McConnell <robrmcc _at_ mts.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Pegs ,
If using the hacksaw blade approach to making a reamer and setting into
the wood, you may be better using the toothed side and grinding the
teeth off. Sometimes only the teeth side of the blade is tempered.
Don't overheat or you will lose the temper from the steel.
Also when making this type of reamer you have to be very careful that
the grind is dead straight, which is not easy to do by hand.
Another thing is that this type of reamer is only good for a few
sharpenings. Once the cutter goes below the wood the game is over with
it.
Rob McC
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Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 01:27:01 EST
From: DISKJAKEY _at_ aol.com
Subject: [HG] HG players in New Jersey, New York & Pennsylvania
I should be getting my first hurdy gurdy within next month or two and
would like to meet hurdy gurdy players in the New Jersey, New York, and
Pennsylvania area.
My purpose is a learning experience and hopefully someone can show me how
to get started as I would like to introduce it at a festival we're
performing in August this summer (even for one song).
Please help me get started on the right track. Thank you,
Jake Conte
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Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 01:29:19 EST
From: DISKJAKEY _at_ aol.com
Subject: [HG] Transcriber needed.
Transcriber(s) needed. Reliable and prompt only. Can pay $10 per song.
Possible long-term project (100 to 200 songs). Please respond
privately. Thank you.
Jake Conte
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Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 10:45:38 -0500
From: arle lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] Pegs ,
Fortunately for a peg shaver the blade would be adjustable, so a
little more use could come from the blade, but in the reamer that
would be a definite problem.
-Arle
>If using the hacksaw blade approach to making a reamer and setting
>into the wood, you may be better using the toothed side and grinding
>the teeth off. Sometimes only the teeth side of the blade is
>tempered. Don't overheat or you will lose the temper from the steel.
>
>Also when making this type of reamer you have to be very careful
>that the grind is dead straight, which is not easy to do by hand.
>Another thing is that this type of reamer is only good for a few
>sharpenings. Once the cutter goes below the wood the game is over
>with it.
>Rob McC
--
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Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 09:32:05 -0800
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: [HG] Rudiger Opperman
We've had a message from someone in England looking for a German
hurdy-gurdy player named Rudiger Opperman. If anyone knows how to contact
him please forward his contact information to us offlist and we will
forward it on to his friend in England.
Thanks,
Cali
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Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 8:18:01 +0200
From: kainer _at_ chello.at
Subject: Re: [HG] Re: pegholes and pegs
Hello Juan
,My first reply seems to be undeliverable so here another attempt:
I also know about this problem -small pegs in too large holes- and maybe here
is an solution for you:
I don't know if you have a wood turning lathe but if you have one perhaps you
could try to shape small, thin hollow shafts -from walnut (Juglans regia) for
example- and glue these into the large holes. Then you can work with every reamer
to get conical holes without any problems. I saw these at several workshops and
for my opinion it works very well. The other way would be to close the holes with
wooden plugs and drill new holes into the plugs.
Regards
Ernst
(Vienna/Austria)
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Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 10:55:38 +0200
From: Jens Walter <jwalter _at_ zfs.tz.uni-stuttgart.de>Subject:
Re: [HG] Rudiger Opperman
Rüdiger Oppermann is a very good harp player, but I don´t think he plays
also the hurdy-gurdy
Jens
=======================================================
Jens Walter ZFS - Zentrum Fertigungstechnik Stuttgart
Dipl.-Phys. Nobelstr. 15, D-70569 Stuttgart, Germany
email: jwalter _at_ zfs.tz.uni-stuttgart.de
phone: ++49(0)711/131 62-29
fax: ++49(0)711/131 62-11
http://www.zfs.tz.uni-stuttgart.de
=======================================================
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Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 13:35:16 +0200
From: Petra Kuehmichel <Petra.Kuehmichel _at_ t-online.de>
Subject: AW: [HG] Rudiger Opperman
Yes, Jens yoe`re right. Rüdiger Oppremann doesn`t play any HG.
He lives in France near the german frontier.
But here´s his adress anyway: R. Oppermann, 5, rue de L´école, F-67160
Oberlauterbach, or Postfach 1000251, D- 76483 Baden-Baden.
all the best
Petra
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Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 14:06:56 +0200
From: Petra Kuehmichel <Petra.Kuehmichel _at_ t-online.de>
Subject: AW: [HG] Rudiger Opperman
By the way, the adress I gave isn`t a private one it`s the contact for
Rüdiger Oppermanns "Sommer Musikfest" a festival he organizes each summer on
the Mosenberg near Kassel. Maybe someone is interested in this colourful
festival with various worldmusic-workshops (also HG). This year 03.08.-
11.08.
greetings Petra
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Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 12:43:57 -0800
From: SB/JW <duodrone _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Re: pegholes and pegs
Hello Ernst,
Why is walnut specially singled out for this use, and does American walnut
(Juglans nigra) have these same desirable properties?
Thanks
Juan
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Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 15:53:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: [HG] Peg shaper info
There are several people interested in my further views on peg shapers and
blades, so I'll post this to the list.
First, the angle on the blade: most peg shapers have a pretty narrow
angle, perhaps 25 or 30 degrees. This is the case with our Herdim shaper,
which I have found to be less than optimal to use. Perhaps this is one of
the trade secrets one learns in violin-building school. ;-) H.S. Wake
shows a very wide angle, perhaps 80 or 85 degrees. This angle provides a
scraping cut, not a slicing cut. Usually slicing is preferable to
scraping, but here I think it is the other way around: the Wake cutter
produces a fine powder of scrapings, while the Herdim cutter either
doesn't cut or digs in.
The steel stock: Using a reground hacksaw blade has been discussed. I'd
suggest a thicker, more substantial piece of steel. This is definitely a
place where a thin piece will tend to bend and chatter. In addition, a
tool steel is recommended. Tool steels come in a bewildering variety, but
there are three grades or types which are generally available, especially
in the tiny amounts needed. There is O-1, oil hardening, which is the
most common; W-1, which is water-hardening; and A-2, air-hardening, which
is the most expensive. Flat stock, like what we are looking for, usually
only has O-1 and A-2 available, not W-1. (There's also low carbon steel,
which you don't want.)
The blade needs to be fully shaped, drilled, slotted, etc before hardening
and tempering. After that it will be too hard to work with.
To harden and temper an O-1 blade, you'll need the following:
- a propane torch (two are better)
- some pieces of firebrick
- a magnet, preferably on a long handle
- at least a gallon of oil - this can be motor oil, transmission fluid,
peanut oil
- a metal container for the oil - one that you don't care about, and
preferably with a handle
- a candy thermometer
- a fire extinguisher
- a pair of Vise-Grips (TM)
- thick leather gloves
- eye protection
- old clothing you don't care about
- an oven
Heat the container of oil on the stove top until it's at about 160°F
(71°C) on the candy thermometer. You actually want it at about 150°, but
it will have cooled by the time you get the part ready. Remove it from
the stove and take it outside. The rest of the operations will be
conducted outdoors, because there's a strong possibility that the oil will
burst into flame at some point, which is unpopular with the people you are
living with.
The following operations should done outdoors on a non-flammable surface.
Arrange the fire bricks to form a floor with a backstop. You want the
heat from the torch to be reflected back somewhat. Test the magnet on the
blade you are hardening, so that you know what it feels like when the
magnet is fully attracted. Heat the blade with the torches until it glows
red. It helps to have some darkness (a shadow, or the cover of night) so
you can see it glowing. Test it with the magnet. If it's hot enough, the
magnet will not stick at all, because the steel has changed its state to
be non-magnetic (amazing but true!). Once it reaches this temperature,
keep heating it and start timing. The blade needs to be at this
temperature for at least 5 minutes.
When the time is up, grab the blade with the Vise-Grips and dunk it in the
container of oil. This is where the heavy clothing and thick gloves are
helpful, because the oil will likely flare up somewhat. Move the blade up
and down in the oil. As tempting as it is, don't move it from side to
side - this causes internal stresses because one side cools faster than
the other. Keep the blade in the oil until it reaches the same
temperature, then take it out and let it cool to room temperature.
At this point the blade will be very hard, very brittle, and covered in
icky black scale. Don't drop it - it can shatter. Remove the oil with a
paper towel, and wash in soapy water. Remove the scale with a wire brush
and/or fine sandpaper. If you have a buffer, buff the part with white
rouge. Test the hardness of the blade with a metal file (not a diamond
one): the file should not cut it at all. If it does cut, the part wasn't
hardened enough, and you need to do it again.
Put the cleaned blade in the cool oven on the open rack. Turn on the
oven to 375°F. Heat the blade in the oven for at least an hour. At this
point you can quench it in the oil again, or just turn the oven off and
let it cool slowly. The blade is now tempered: softened enough not to
break, hardened enough to hold an edge. To sharpen, hone the blade on
an oil stone or water stone.
Fun, huh?
Alden F.M. Hackmann darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu
Web: http://www.hurdygurdy.com/hg/hghome.html
"Beati illi qui in circulum circumeunt, fient enim magnae rotae."
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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 01:30:56 +0100
From: dave _at_ dpraties.freeserve.co.uk
Subject: Re: [HG] Pegs ,
For the record, I have made and used a number of these wooden
reamers, ( though not for peg holes ), and they work very well if
driven with light pressure. I used epoxy cement to fasten the blade to
the glue, and didn't bother with the wire ties as the book suggests.
None of them came apart in use.
Cheers, Dave
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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 9:49:45 +0200
From: kainer _at_ chello.at
Subject: Re: [HG] Re: pegholes and pegs
Hello Juan,
european walnut (Juglans regia)is only one of several wood you can use. Its a
reason of availability too. Of course you can use american walnut. I think
american walnut do have the same properties. The reason for why generally walnut
is taken there is, that it is relatively hard and does not become worn off from
the pegs (plum, pear, boxwood or similar) as fast as maple wood, the material wich
is normally used for pegboxes.
Regards
Ernst
(Vienna/Austria)
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Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 02:03:01 EST
From: Maxoubbn _at_ aol.com
Subject: [HG] After the workshop in Seattle
Hello !
(to r.t., Matt, Chris, Nina, Alden, Cali, Margy, Judith, Maria, Trish, Theo,
Curtis, Penny & Diana)
I want to say THANK YOU for the good time we've had in Seattle. With such
people in the workshop, it was easy to make good music.
On tuesday, Cali showed me to Fort Flangler. I was like a pilgrim
there...
I hope to see you next summer in France, or one of these days in US.
If you need it, here's my address :
J.F. "Maxou" HEINTZEN
Le bourg - 03360 VALIGNY - France
Tel : 04.70.66.60.01 / 06.87.43.63.65
Maxou
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Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 21:49:26 -0800
From: R. T. Taylor <shangrilart _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: [HG] RealAudio Tekerozene - Hungarian Hurdy Gurdy Music on the web
Here is a website that has one RealAudio file with some Hungarian Tekero
playing on it.
It is not the best example of a Tekero becuase there are other instruments
playing and some singing. But you will get to hear the destintive buzzing
sound of the Tekero dog.
A link to the file will be on the right side of the web page under a picture
of a Hungarian Bagpiper.
The tune is from the Magyar Tekerozenkar CD called Kertunk Alatt, track 8.
The tune is called Mikor kend es Pista Batyam and it from the Moldova area.
RealAudio Tekerozene - www.magyar.org/folklor/
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Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 00:12:45 -0800
From: R. T. Taylor <shangrilart _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: [HG] Branles de Village by Robert Ballard
Maybe someone out there in the vastness of cyber space has this.......
I am looking for a copy of Branles de Village Number 1 to 4 by Robert
Ballard in the Key of G.
I already have it in C .
I could also use the Lute tablature in C or G.
If anyone has this or a midi or ABC file I would like to get a copy.
Merci, Gracias and Thanks a lot.
r.t.
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Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 07:24:14 -0700
From: Pat Nelson <pjs3ds _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Branles de Village by Robert Ballard
Hi RT,I don't get it, why don't you just transpose what you want into G?
I play hammer dulcimer with a guy who plays lute. I'll ask him if he has an
arrangement of the branles you're looking for. If he does, it'll be in
written music. Is that ok? If he hasn't made an arrangement himself, he
also may know some places to look for them. Do you play the lute, or are
you just looking for some arrangement ideas?
Pat Nelson
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Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 23:04:54 -0700
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: [HG] Sad News ,
This year's " Fête de la Vielle " in Sharon Vermont
has been cancelled because some of the organisers
are not able to attend .
Lets hope it will work next year .
Henry Boucher
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Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 12:50:44 +0100 (BST)
From: jim.yeeles _at_ btinternet.com
Subject: [HG] HG event in Swanage (UK)
Hello,
Apologies if it's been posted before but I've just noticed the following
in the spring issue of (UK) Southern Counties Folk Federation magazine "Folk on Tap":
Folk on the Farm
Informal residential music weekends in Swanage, Dorset.
JULY 5th - 7th Hurdy Gurdy
With Cliff Stapleton and Mike Eaton for instruments in D or G (any standard)
Tutorial weekend, workshops by Cliff Stapleton of 'Blowzabella' and 'Duellists'
fame, and Mike Eaton. Including informal concert on Saturday night with student
participation. Any standard.
Weekend fee is £35 per person. Camping free.
You can find out more at: http://www.californiafarm.co.uk/events.htm
Sounds good. I'm starting to get a bit paranoid as this is the third event that
I haven't been able to attend due to other commitments. One day I'll make it.
Jim
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Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 16:49:33 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Branles de Village by Robert Ballard
...to RT,
Do you just need transposition and then a clean copy of something?
I can do that for free. I can enter data and then do any key, octave or
clef.
Publishable quality.
jim
zhenya _at_ prexar.com
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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:15:23 +0200
From: " Xavier AIME - Site \"Vielle à Roue\"" <hg.vielle _at_ wanadoo.fr>
Subject: [HG] Varnish
Hi all,
In the past some makers used the "propolis" (a resin harvested on buds by
bees) to make an excellent varnish for their instruments (notably
violins). Does anybody know the recipe of it?
Thanks,
X. AIME
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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:07:54 -0500
From: arle lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] Varnish
I don't know the recipe for it, but if you want propolis at a decent
price talk to a local bee keeper. Propolis is never terribly abundant
and if you can find it an a health-food store (the most likely source
here in the U.S. I think) the price would be quite high compared to
what a bee keeper could get it to you for.
(I had an old roommate whose family kept bees and whose family used
propolis for various health-related items. Unfortunately that family
is out of the business so I can't get you more information than that.)
-Arle
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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 08:35:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] Varnish
I don't know any finish recipes that use only propolis, though Cali may
have some. Propolis is usually added to other resins as a plasticizer, to
make the finish softer. There's a balance to be struck: a very
hard finish will be very strong and resistant to abrasion, but very
susceptible to impact damage - it will shatter or crack if something hits
it hard. A very plastic finish will not shatter, it will bend on impact,
but it will also dent and scratch easily.
As Arle mentioned, the best place to get propolis is from a beekeeper, and
there are only certain times of the year that it's available. (Not being
a beekeeper, I don't know what times those are ;-) )
Alden
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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 18:44:49 +0200
From: " Xavier AIME - Site \"Vielle à Roue\""<hg.vielle _at_ wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: [HG] Varnish
Thanks a lot.
I have a small apiary (I'm not a professional) and I produce a little few
of propolis. I would like to use it to re-varnish my hurdy-gurdy, that is
why I look for a good recipe because I would not like to do anything. I
heard that violin Stradivarius was varnished with this same product. The
persons who do modelism likes very much this varnish also.
To answer to Alden, one pick up the propolis especially in spring, as
buds went out before that the first sheets appear (now ;-P) .
Xavier
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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 12:34:34 -0500
From: gjr <roehmguitars _at_ midtnn.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Varnish
De-lurking...
I am a luthier from Tennessee, and recently joined the list.
A description of using propolis soap as a ground:
http://www.scavm.com/Fulton.htm
Raw propolis can also be dissolved in alcohol and applied
with a brush or with a cloth, like French polish. It
has been used instead of oil as a finish for violin
necks.
Geoff Roehm
http://roehmguitars.midtnn.net/
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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 23:53:08 -0700
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: [HG] Varnish,
This is a call for help ,
In page 51 of " Bau einer Drehleier " by H.Gotschy ,
there is a receipe for varnish , I looked in a German/French
dictionary and still I can not identify the ingrediants .
Couild somebody help me with the translation ?
Henry Boucher
St Lambert
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Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 00:39:16 -0400
From: Matthew Szostak <gurdy _at_ midcoast.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Varnish,
Sorry, Henry, I can't help you here, but wasn't someone going to translate
that book? I wonder what ever happened to that simple project :-)
~ Matt
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Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 10:26:26 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <Simon.Wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] Varnish,
Hello,
Would'nt it be sensible to join an instrument makers mailing list or
newsgroup for a while to get info about varnish ?
Also I am sure there are books about varnish for for violin, etc. in
english as in german. At least I found seventeen matches in the library
of congress online http://catalog.loc.gov/ for the keyword combination
'varnish + violin' .
regards
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 21:02:14 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <Simon.Wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] Varnish,
Hello,
A friend and violinmaker recomended Hammerl, Josef & Rainer 'Violin
Varnish".
for example at:
http://www.violins.on.ca/reading.html
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 19:34:49 +0100
From: george.swallow <george.swallow _at_ beechcottage98.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [HG] Varnish,
As Helmut Gotschy's own website is in English, he could probably translate
it himself. As his excellent site also contains most of the material in his
book, there is no need to struggle with the German at all.
George Swallow
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Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 12:20:34 -0700
From: R. T. Taylor <shangrilart _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: [HG] Fw: [BFD] Announce: Fest Noz in Houston, Texas
Those folks on the BFD list do not cross post on this list. So I am posting
it for them.
r.t.
..................
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Elmo Eldridge" <Aphelia _at_ onetel.net.uk>
To: <BRETON-FRENCH-DANCE-L _at_ rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 10:31 AM
Subject: [BFD] Announce: Fest Noz in Houston, Texas
> Direct from the Houston International Festival
>
> Brittany's Champion Pipe band
>
> Bagad Rosed-Mor
>
> and Breton dancers
>
> Mederien Penhars
>
> at the Garden in the Heights, 3926 Feagan Street, Houston, TX 77007
>
> on Sunday, April 21st 2002
>
> for a
>
> FEST NOZ!
>
> There will be a dance workshop beginning at 5:00pm with
> Poor Man's Fortune (Austin, Texas) providing the music.
> The pipe band Bagad Rosed-Mor will arrive around 7:00.
> Then the excitement begins! The dancers Mederien Penhars
> will arrive shortly after and will perform and then join
> in the dances with us.
>
> There will be a $10 charge (unless a sponsor is found)
>
> If you are in the Houston area don't miss this extraordinary
> opportunity to experience Breton culture first hand.
>
> For additional information contact Jan Zollars at <
zollars_j _at_ hccs.cc.tx.us
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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 01:58:26 +0200
From: Pello Garcia <pellog _at_ jazzfree.com>
Subject: [HG] Testing...1,2,3
Hi world !
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Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:17:35 -0700
From: Diana O'Neill <dianamark _at_ foxinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Testing...1,2,3
Hi Back from Seattle Washington-- are you a hurdy gurdy player and if so
where are you located?
Diana
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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 02:28:05 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: [HG] Colson LB on eBay
There's a Colson luteback for sale on eBay. It's been there before,
several times I think: the reserve has never been met.
We restored one just like this, and it's a lovely instrument. The
Mirecourt builders didn't make many lutebacks. However, as nice as it
looks in the pictures, the vendor doesn't really know the terminology, and
so probably doesn't know if it's really in good condition or not. So
caveat emptor.
Bon chance!
Alden
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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:49:00 +0200
From: Pello Garcia <pellog _at_ jazzfree.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Testing...1,2,3
> Hi Back from Seattle Washington-- are you a hurdy gurdy player and if so
> where are you located?
Yes, I play an electroacustic hg made by Denis Siorat since 1999. 3 melody
strings, 3 drones and 2 trumpetts.
I live in Barcelona (Catalonia, Spain), and I play in three bands : Nebeda
www.nebeda.cjb.net ("progressive" folk), Slainte www.slainte.cjb.net (celtic
folk) and Goliards www.goliards.cjb.net (early music).
The hg is not the only instrument I play. I first fell in love with bagpipes
and actually play galician gaita, flemish doedelzak and irish uilleann. Also
some traditional flutes from anywhere.
Best regards from old Catalonia to all hg players !
PELLO GARCIA
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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:35:19 -0400
From: Ginny Spindler <ginnyspi _at_ francomm.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] Fw: [BFD] Announce: Fest Noz in Houston, Texas
Hi RT!!!
How do you sunscribe to The list????? is there a web site????
Thanks
Regine
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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 19:10:37 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <Simon.Wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] Fw: [BFD] Announce: Fest Noz in Houston, Texas
Hello,
If you have the possibility to see Bagad Rosed-Mor go for it. This is
much better than scottish pipe band music which I finde boring. Breton
pipe-bands include numerous 'bombardes' shawm type instruments, and the
music is incredible. Bagad Rosed-Mor is Loud. Precise. Funky. Groovy.
Complex. Traditional. Astonishing. see: http://www.ronsedmor.org
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:22:24 -0500
From: arle lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org>
Subject: [HG] cottoning problem
Hi all,
maybe someone has an idea for me. Occasionally when I cotton my
tekerõ get a problem on the melody string that I am not sure of the
cause for. Basically the top few notes on that string end up sounding
like someone drawing their fingernails on slate. If I recotton I
usually can fix the problem, but sometimes I have to repeat this a
few times to get it right. Other times the cotton goes right on and I
have no problem. I can't see any difference in how I apply it nor can
I tell what will fix it at any given time.
Any ideas?
-Arle
--
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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 20:08:03 EDT
From: Cruikshank44 _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] cottoning problem
This is the real reason for gurdies being associated with the devil!
Maybe too much contact with the wheel? I mean, maybe the strings need to be
shimmed slightly?
Felicia.
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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 18:45:12 -0700
From: R. T. Taylor <shangrilart _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: [HG] How to subscribe to the BRETON-FRENCH-DANCE list
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ginny Spindler" <ginnyspi _at_ francomm.com>
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 8:35 AM
Subject: RE: [HG] Fw: [BFD] Announce: Fest Noz in Houston, Texas
> Hi RT!!!
>
> How do you sunscribe to The list????? is there a web site????
> Thank
...........................................
This list has gone through a big change and there is not much being posted
anymore. It always had a Breton slant to the postings but now they seem to
have lost most of their members.
Here is how to subscribe.
Send mail to BRETON-FRENCH-DANCE-L-request _at_ dance.rootsweb.com
and in the message body, put:
subscribe
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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:32:26 -0500
From: arle lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] cottoning problem
Of course. It would be the obvious bit wouldn't it? I had never had
to shim my strings before, but we just had the summer humidity arrive
here in Indiana (my first summer here) so all bets about past
behavior are off.
Thanks. Adding two layers of index card material took care of the problem.
Thanks,
Arle
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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:31:32 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] humidity/temp numbers
For the record, and thank you in advance.
This is a request for the "critical" numbers;
the high/low ranges for humidity for a hurdy-gurdy.
Is the inside of the case the same as inside the room if it is set out?
What would be the perfect range for humidity and also temperature?
Is one more dangerous to the instrument than the other or are they both
equal?
Then, what is merely acceptable beyond the perfect boundaries?
Then, where are the thresholds where cracking and glue degrading would
begin, the "red" zones?
As far as temperature,
I think more easily in fahrenheit.
I will translate the centigrade if someone writes from Europe.
Thanks so much!
~~
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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:35:49 -0500
From: arle lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] humidity/temp numbers
Hi Jim,
this will depend, at least in part, on where the instrument was made.
If you made the instrument in the desert Southwest of the U.S. (say,
Arizona) and then moved to the east coast during the summer you
would, in all likelihood, have terrible problems with binding and
wood movement. On the other hand an instrument made in a very humid
area would have real problems with cracking and drying if you took it
to Arizona.
In designing wooden articles there are ways to deal with humidity
changes, but none of them are perfect. The best bet in the long run
is to take the wood you intend to use and let it sit in the
environment you intend to use it in for at least a few weeks before
you use it and then build the article and never move. Since this is
not always possible you can run into problems.
In general though, if you are in a dry climate it is wise to use a
dampet (is this spelling right?). There are various sorts, and they
really help to keep the instrument from drying out and developing
problems with shrinkage. When you get your bass tekerõ from Hungary
you will want to keep the relative humidity where the instrument is
stored at about 50% or more since Hungary has a fairly humid climate.
In Maine this should not pose a problem. If you move to Arizona (or
Anchorage, Alaska in the winter, which makes most deserts seem humid)
then you will have more problems.
As far as too much humidity goes, don't take it in the shower with
you or leave it in the rain and you should be fine. If the humidity
is going too high your instrument will let you know (the keys will
bind among other things).
I don't have any numbers for you though.
-Arle
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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:55:23 -0500
From: Theo Bick <tbick _at_ austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] humidity/temp numbers
Hello,
I am sorry I cannot answer the questions about critical numbers for humidity
or temperature but I am very interested if anyone knows.
I did buy a good humiidty guage about a yeat ago and check it often. First I
listen to the way my HG is playing then check the guage. I already know that
some things sound better when the humidity is around 60 to 65% (at least
that's what it says on my guage) than when it is down below 50%. The range
in the room where I practice has been 40 to 70% over the last year and the
temperature from 60 to 80 F. When the humidity approaches 70% and if the
temp is also high, things sound not good. The wheel doesn't get a good grip
regardless of the rosin, too many overtones even after adjusting string
pressure. When a cold and dry front first comes through it sounds good, nice
clear tones, loud. But then if it gets too cold and the humidity goes down
(with the heat on) things get a bit harsh with not quite as nice a sound. My
question has been - Is it relative humidity (what the guage shows) that is
the determining factor or absolute humidity (total moisture content) A warm
70% humidity room has more moisture content than a cool 70% room. My guess
is that the wood feels absolute humidity so then it is important to consider
temperature as well as humidity. It is amazing that going from 70 F and 65 %
to 78 F and 70 % can have such an effect.
Theo
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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:14:46 -0500
From: arle lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] cottoning problem
Hi again.
I just noticed that shimming the string on my tekerõ not only made
the upper notes sound clear again, but it also got rid of some
annoying noise that had recently crept into the instrument which I
attributed to "body noise".
Nice to know that after two years I still don't know anything.
-Arle
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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:13:05 -0500
From: arle lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] humidity/temp numbers
By this, do you mean, regardless of the amount of rosin, or
regardless of the type of rosin? I use a very sticky and dark cello
rosin on my wheel and I have played the instrument in a light rain
with no problems with the wheel (the cover did protect the wheel from
direct exposure). The flip side of having something that always grips
is that it is very easy to have it grip too much, so I sometimes have
to remove rosin from the wheel by turning it against a clean cloth.
>The wheel doesn't get a good grip regardless of the rosin, too many
>overtones even after adjusting string pressure.
--
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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:02:40 EDT
From: Cruikshank44 _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] humidity/temp numbers
Hi, all-
I'm not sure if I've introduced myself to the list or not but I'm Felicia
Dale, I live in western Washington State in the US. I play a Hubbert
volksgurdy (about 12 years old now) and my husband, William Pint, and I have
done a fair amount of playing around the US, Canada, the UK and a tiny bit in
Europe. I've had some pretty challenging experiences in terms of playing
conditions from very cold and damp (the Netherlands in winter- brrr!) to very
hot and dry (Arizona this spring), indoors and out, etc. Would you folks be
interested in what I've learned? I was planning on writing a little
something and these latest posts about humidity and temperature are exactly
what I was going to write about. I would also be very interested to hear
what other folks have experienced in keeping their gurdies working in extreme
conditions. It always helps to be prepared, even though it seems every
instrument wants something different...
Felicia.
PS Here's our website if anyone's interested:
www.pintndale.com
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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 19:26:23 +0200
From: Pello Garcia <pellog _at_ jazzfree.com>
Subject: [HG] Some (little?) problems
Hi again,
Above all, excuse my poor/weak english...
Well, maybe someone can help me with some problems on my D.Siorat hg... here
we go :
1) The higher notes (from 2nd C to last G) are very sharp, an all tangents
face now to the maximum left trying to flat them with no success. Of course,
I've tried re-cottoning, re-rosing, replacing strings, and moving the
sliding nut, although I guess this should be in a position to get the middle
G with 100% right angle tangents. Any solution? Should I move the sliding
nut?
2) Drone strings aren't very stable, mainly when I accelerate the wheel to
play with trumpett. They sharp a bit. I think it's normal, but... ;-)
3) With trumpett strings I get a different problem : they flat a bit when I
accelerate the wheel...
4) I've changed the G mouche for an A gros bourdon. String is a "Kürschner
VD 0360". Is this a good string to get a low A? I feel that it's very tight
and I'm a bit worried, you know.. ;-) Also is hard to tune it, I can't
winding to the peg and sometimes it "frees". Help !
Thank you in advance for your kind answers,
See ya !
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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:54:57 -0700
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: [HG] HG Maintenance,
Jim , on the north east atlantic coast the two
worst situation are: Winter , if your house is heated
with electric radiators it way become very dry
and your HG , your computer , your
furniture as well as your sinuses would enjoy
a humidifier , try to go to 50% if you can.
End of summer , outside ,after sun set , the keys may
stick in their holes , in the old days the wheel
would become egg shaped but with a laminated
wheel it is a thing of the past .
Pello , normally ( is anything "normal " on a HG ? <g>)
the 7th tangent from the bass side ( the octave )
should be in the middle of the vibrating lenght
of the string , maybe the nut or the bridge had moved ?
Henry
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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 17:46:05 EDT
From: Cruikshank44 _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] Some (little?) problems
In a message dated 4/16/02 9:29:13 AM, pellog _at_ jazzfree.com writes:
<< 1) The higher notes (from 2nd C to last G) are very sharp, an all tangents
face now to the maximum left trying to flat them with no success. Of course,
I've tried re-cottoning, re-rosing, replacing strings, and moving the
sliding nut, although I guess this should be in a position to get the middle
G with 100% right angle tangents. Any solution? Should I move the sliding
nut? >>
Maybe the bridge has shifted, I mean bent in one direction or the other due
to string pressure or age?
Felicia.
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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:39:10 -0500
From: Theo Bick <tbick _at_ austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Some (little?) problems
> Well, maybe someone can help me with some problems on my D.Siorat hg...
here
> we go :
>
>
> 1) The higher notes (from 2nd C to last G) are very sharp, an all tangents
> face now to the maximum left trying to flat them with no success. Of
course,
> I've tried re-cottoning, re-rosing, replacing strings, and moving the
> sliding nut, although I guess this should be in a position to get the
middle
> G with 100% right angle tangents. Any solution? Should I move the sliding
> nut?
I agree with Felicia. It sounds like the bridge needs to be moved towards
the tail (right). I had to remove one and reglue it on one HG because it
wasn't constructed with correct geometry. I just took the bridge off,
prepared the surface and replaced it without glue. I experimented with
various positions until it could be tuned properly then glued it there with
hide glue. I also put a wire between the tailpiece and the bridge to help
hold it. But to do this you need to have enough space between the bridge and
tailpiece. If you don't, then you might have to live with middle G (and
other low notes) pointed to the right somewhat and find some sort of
compromise. Also, I found that the amount of cotton affects the high notes
more than the low ones so if you can put on a little more cotton, that could
flatten the high notes a bit.
Can you ask Dennis to fix it?
>
> 2) Drone strings aren't very stable, mainly when I accelerate the wheel to
> play with trumpett. They sharp a bit. I think it's normal, but... ;-)
Mine sharpen also and other folks say this is normal although using light
string pressure and a heavy (tight) string helps.
>
> 3) With trumpett strings I get a different problem : they flat a bit when
I
> accelerate the wheel...
So do mine sometimes but not all the time. I don't know why yet.
Theo
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Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 16:38:27 -0500
From: arle lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] Some (little?) problems
This brings up a question I have had for some time. Why are HG
bridges glued at all? Bridges in violin-family instruments aren't
glued and rely on string pressure to hold them in place. Given the
higher string pressure in HGs, is there a reason why they *must* be
glued (other than to maintain proper geometry)? Is is because of the
lateral pressure on the strings that (usually) goes one way?
-Arle
>I just took the bridge off, prepared the surface and replaced it
>without glue. I exper
> >overtones even after adjusting string pressure.
> --
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Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:28:16 -0500
From: Theo Bick <tbick _at_ austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] humidity/temp numbers
Hi Felicia,
Yes please write about your experiences with temperature and humidity.
Theo
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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:01:35 +0200
From: Jens Walter <jwalter _at_ zfs.tz.uni-stuttgart.de>
Subject: Re: [HG] Some (little?) problems
> This brings up a question I have had for some time. Why are HG
> bridges glued at all?
I think this is a very good question, I also asked it to myself
sometimes.
Bridges in violin-family instruments aren't
> glued and rely on string pressure to hold them in place. Given the
> higher string pressure in HGs, is there a reason why they *must* be
> glued (other than to maintain proper geometry)?
I don´t think that the pressure of the strings is on a HG higher than on
a violin, just try and the the violins e-string...
Maybe it is just a tradtion.
Jens
Is is because of the
> lateral pressure on the strings that (usually) goes one way?
>
> -Arle
>
> >I just took the bridge off, prepared the surface and replaced it
> >without glue. I experimented with various positions until it could
> >be tuned properly then glued it there with hide glue.
>
> --
--
=======================================================
Jens Walter ZFS - Zentrum Fertigungstechnik Stuttgart
Dipl.-Phys. Nobelstr. 15, D-70569 Stuttgart, Germany
email: jwalter _at_ zfs.tz.uni-stuttgart.de
phone: ++49(0)711/131 62-29
fax: ++49(0)711/131 62-11
http://www.zfs.tz.uni-stuttgart.de
=======================================================
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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:07:04 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <Simon.Wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] Some (little?) problems
Hallo,
Jens Walter:
>
> > This brings up a question I have had for some time. Why are HG
> > bridges glued at all?
>
> I think this is a very good question, I also asked it to myself
> sometimes.
>
> Bridges in violin-family instruments aren't
> > glued and rely on string pressure to hold them in place. Given the
> > higher string pressure in HGs, is there a reason why they *must* be
> > glued (other than to maintain proper geometry)?
>
> I don´t think that the pressure of the strings is on a HG higher than on
> a violin, just try and the the violins e-string...
> Maybe it is just a tradtion.
I played on an instrument for years where the bridge is not glued on,
and I know a number of instruments on which the bridge is not glued on,
whith some of these the bridge is fixed with a dowel but not glued.
I belive gluing the bridge on makes live easier for the makers since the
geometry of the string/bridge/tailpiece system can be choosen more
freely if the bridge stands by its own, but gluing the bridge is no
neccessity. Its a tradition like varnishing the bridge.
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
--
http://members.chello.at/simon.wascher/
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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:22:14 -0700
From: SB/JW <duodrone _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Some (little?) problems
>Hallo,
>
>Jens Walter:
>>
>> > This brings up a question I have had for some time. Why are HG
>> > bridges glued at all?
>
Maybe it is to make setting up easier. Most members of the violin family
(except viola da gamba et familia) are fretless instruments with a fixed
nut, you adjust with your fingers as you play and you can adjust the
position of the bridge.
On a hurdy gurdy the tangents need to be adjusted before you start to play,
this may involve moving the nut on each individual melody string, now if
the bridge were movable as well, this relatively simple procedure could
become a nightmare, I think the key is that there is a lot more room to
adjust at the nut end than at the bridge end, the bridge is fairly tightly
sandwiched with the tailpece at one end and the sitting on the edge of the
wheelslot on the other. Moving it could also alter the string angle
between bridge and tailpiece. It makes far more sense to keep the bridge in
place and move the nuts.
As Theo found out, the bride does have a tendency to creep towards the
wheel and that is why some hurdy gurdies not only have the main bridge
glued, but attached to the tailpiece by a wire or screw.
Juan
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Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 02:08:02 +0200
From: Pello Garcia <pellog _at_ jazzfree.com>
Subject: [HG] Eureka ! and more questions
Thank you to all for your help !
Finally, I've wounded more cotton on melody strings and now higher notes
have flatened to a normal position. I can't beleive that a Siorat's had a
bad placed bridge !! ;-)
Everything is OK now with high G gut strings, but it seems that does not
work on low G wound string. Need this string a different preasure at nut or
bridge? pieces of paper or deeper rest?
Also I feel that this string changes its pitch if a turn the wheel at
different speeds, and it's really difficult to tune it beside the other
chantarelles. I use a Pirastro Chromcor Violin G4.
..and my last question. There is a strange cover or "small door" at hg's
back, fixed with 2 screws. I've opened it but I didn't find anything in.
What's the meaning of this cover??
Thanks !
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Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 22:44:51 -0700
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: [HG] Vielles en Fête
We invite you to :
http://plumier.tripod.ca/index-3.html
Henry Boucher
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Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 19:49:41 -0700
From: R. T. Taylor <shangrilart _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: [HG] New Hurdy Gurdy CD's
New Hurdy Gurdy CD's ?
OK, they are not exactly new, but they are new to me.
You never know what you will find at your local CD store in America.
I was in one in Hollywood yesterday and to my surprise they had quite a
selection of interesting folk music. Of course I had to listen to the
sound of 110 db bass booming over the sound system while I tried to
ignore it and search for something I did not already have.
____________________________________________________
The first CD is titled "Montferrine" Music de Romandie et des Alpes
It features Diego Abriel on HG, voice and Percussion. With Ernest Hanni
on Mandoline and Nikita Pfister playing Accordion diatonique, tympanon (
hacbrett, hammered dulcimer ) and voice.
The music is from the French speaking part of Switzerland and almost all
of them are dances. and most of the tunes are Traditional.
I first saw Diego at St. Chartier in 1986. He has a very distinctive,
precise coup style which is easy to hear on this recording. If you have
ever wanted to get that "drum roll" effect of 3 or 4 quick coups pulling
up on the handle, ( the last half of coup de 6 or coup de 8 ) here is you
chance to hear it, a lot. A few other noted players can use this
technique to great effect, notably Sergio Berardo, Matthias Loibner.
We actually practiced this in Matthias's class last summer at the Bordon
Fest. It is a lot of fun if you can do it when you want to and
frustrating if you could do it 5 minutes ago and for some reason can't do
it anymore. More Rosin, More Rosin !!! or is it more
practice?...........
Some of the music reminds me of the music from the North of Italy, the
Piedmont area. This is played by groups like La Ciapa Rusa, and Sergio
Berardo's old group, etc.
The combination of instruments is unusual but interesting. And each
instrument gets featured on the CD. The CD was made in 1999 . The HG was
made by P. Coriani, Modena Italie.
This is on the Swiss, VDE Gallo label
http://www.vdegallo.ch/indexpg/main.htm
DISQUES VDE-GALLO
EDITION, ENREGISTREMENT
ET FABRICATION DE
DISQUES, DISQUES
COMPACTS ET
MUSICASSETTES
Rue de l'Ale 31, case 945,
1000 Lausanne 9
Switzerland
Tél. : + 41 -(0)21.312.11.54
Fax. : + 41 -(0)21.312.11.34
____________________________________________________
The second CD is..... is... well it is different.
It is by Remy Couvez and is called "Wheeling Dance" It was produced in
2000.
On the cover of the CD is a picture of an interesting HG with 2 sets of
keys, 3 melody strings and was made by Marc Humblet in 1982.
I will scann the picture and send it to anyone that is interested.
The other musicians are Philippe Bergoin on electric keyboard, Olivier
Gall on Electric Base and Dominique Etienne on percussion.
The tunes are compositions, not dance music.
It is on the Buda Musique label http://www.budamusique.com/
BUDA Musique
188 Boulevard Voltaire
75011 Paris - FRANCE
tel : (33) 01 40 24 01 03
This is from that web site:
Remy Couvez has spent twenty years playing and experimenting with the
hurdy-gurdy. A sensitive virtuoso, he is also an inventive composer who
plays with the sound specificities of his instrument ^×an instrument
indeed quite old but still full of surprises.
He has another CD called "Itinérances" from 1997
This web site has more CD's with HG on them to. Just search for vielle.
I guess the current price in Europe is about 16 Euro's for a CD.
Ciao for Niao
r.t.
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Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 11:45:50 +0200 (CEST)
From: Tom Goodale <goodale _at_ aei-potsdam.mpg.de>
Subject: [HG] Recommendation ?
Hi,
I've just joined the list, having been pointed to it by a friend. I'm
(finally) in a position to buy myself a hurdygurdy, and was hoping that
someone could recommend a good maker/place to buy to me. I'm sorry if
this has been discussed recently, but I can't find any archives later than
December 2000 8-(
Is it wise to just order one by mail order, or should I try to visit the
make/shop and try it out first ? I live in Berlin, Germany, does anyone
have any experience with any of the German makers ? I found a list on
www.drehleier-online.de but no real information as to the quality of
instruments...
Would I be better to try to make it to Saint Chartier this year and buy
one there ?
Thanks in advance for any help.
Tom
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Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 07:44:05 -0400
From: Judith Lindenau <judith _at_ taar.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] New Hurdy Gurdy CD's
Wheeling Dance is also available at Amazon (said the isolate in Northern
Michigan).
judith
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Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:06:40 -0400
From: Beverly Woods <tradmusic _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] New Hurdy Gurdy CD's
Also from cybermusic surplus at a considerable discount.
Beverly
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Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:54:01 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <Simon.Wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] Recommendation ?
Hello,
Tom Goodale:
> (...) someone could recommend a good maker/place to buy to me.
> (...) I live in Berlin, Germany, does anyone
> have any experience with any of the German makers ? I found a list on
> www.drehleier-online.de but no real information as to the quality of
> instruments...
> Would I be better to try to make it to Saint Chartier this year and buy
> one there ?
To go to St. Chartier ( http://www.saintchartier.com/ ) is the best
solution, you get an overview there about whats on the market.
My personal recomandation for 'regional' makers (based on my personal
choisse and experience) are (in alphabetic order):
http://www.gotschy.com
'Ulricus'
Wilfried Ulrich
Am Diekschloot 40
D-26506 Norden
tel/fax +49[0]49 31.18 90 58
mail ULRICUS.Norden _at_ t-online.de (makes a version of a historic hurdy
gurdy from the 'Germanisches Nationalmuseum' in Nuernberg, similar to
the hurdy gurdy from the Berchtesgadener museum )
http://www.weichselbaumer.cc
as you said there are other makers to find at www.drehleier-online.de
which may be other peoples personal choisse and recomandation. Which HG
is best for you depends much on your personal need and targets: playing
jazz, french trad, eighteenth century composers, accompaniing singing,
medieval music, bavarian trad ....
regards
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
--
http://members.chello.at/simon.wascher/
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Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 13:14:30 +0200
From: www.altemusik.net <thomas _at_ altemusik.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Recommendation ?
Dear Tom!
I was triing and listening several instruments of German makers and the
quality of some of them is realy good. I am playing an minstrel HG (gothic,
14th century) from Helmut Gotschy and for this special kind of music a
perfect instrument.
Two months ago I played another HG from Gotschy: FANTASTIC
I like that he is a very serious and honest instrument-maker.
http://www.gotschy.com/
He even got english pages!
Mit freundlichen Grüssen,
Thomas M. Schallaböck
_____________________________
AMSA
Alte Musik Salzburg Austria
http://www.altemusik.net/index.html
eMail: thomas _at_ altemusik.net
Thomas M. Schallaböck
Erzabt-Klotz-Strasse 27
A - 5020 Salzburg
Tel & Fax: 00 43 / 662 / 831 002
Mobil: 0043 / 664 / 33 78 522
______________________________
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Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:18:18 -0700
From: Rita Glenn <lady9 _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] New Hurdy Gurdy CD's
Judith,
I would like a picture of this Hurdy Gurdy with the two keyboards if you
please.
Send to lady9 _at_ earthlink.net. Thank you.
Rita
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Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 18:01:39 +0000
From: Madame Colson <colsonvielle _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: [HG] music
Hi all My sister and her husband will be staying near St Chartier the
weekend of May 25and26 and would like to hear a Hurdy Gurdy. Does anyone
know of any concerts at that time? thanks Nina
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Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:30:50 -0400
From: Alison Gowan <acgowan _at_ freeuk.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] New Hurdy Gurdy CD's
On this CD topic,
I am looking for a Canadian source for the Ad Vielle Que Pourra CD-
'Come What May'.
I have been waiting for months for A&B Sound on-line to supply it,
but does any one know of a quicker method. Direct from a band member
would be mutually great for instance.
Cheers Alison
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Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 13:56:02 -0500
From: arle lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] New Hurdy Gurdy CD's
Does it have to come through a Canadian-based source, or just a
Canadian-accessible source? I would recommend going through Green
Linnet's web site. Since Ad Vielle is on that label I would think
having it in stock would be no problem:
http://www.greenlinnet.com/shopping/search_detail.cfm?ProductID=87
Of course the prices are USD. With their standard shipping rate to
Canada you are talking $20.50 (US) ($32.33 CAN).
Hope this helps
-Arle
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Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:08:30 -0500
From: arle lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] New Hurdy Gurdy CD's
Balázs Nagy, the Hungarian maker, has started making and using a two
keyboard system French-style HG. IT has quite a nice sound and approaches
the problem of two keyboards a little differently from most. His solution
was to shorten the string length on the second keyboard so that the keys
and tangents for the second keyboard come up between those for the first.
This limits the length of the second keyboard because you don't have room
to interleaf the tangents this way as you go up the scale, but it does
provide a fair chromatic polyphonic potential. I had a picture of his
instrument, but I can't find it at the moment.
I was informed that most double keyboard HGs handle the multiple tangents
by making nyckelharpa-style slotted keys through which tangents can poke
through (see
http://www.nyckelharpa.org/pics/kontrabas.med.dubbellek.lek.big.jpg for
an example). Is this in fact the case? Or are they handled like the top
key row in some 4-row nyckelharpas
(http://www.nyckelharpa.org/pics/4row.upsidedown.jpg) in which one set of
tangent is pointing downward?
-Arle
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Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 00:40:31 +0200
From: Petra Kuehmichel <Petra.Kuehmichel _at_ t-online.de>
Subject: AW: [HG] Some (little?) problems
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com [mailto:owner-hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com]Im Auftrag
von Pello Garcia
Gesendet am: Dienstag, 16. April 2002 19:26
An: Lista HG
Betreff: [HG] Some (little?) problems
2) Drone strings aren't very stable, mainly when I accelerate the wheel to
play with trumpett. They sharp a bit. I think it's normal, but... ;-
>> As far as I know, you have to change the angle of the chord towards the
wheel. Just try what happens if you put a little paper under the bridge of
the drones (near the peg-box)
greetings
Petra
Thank you in advance for your kind answers,
See ya !
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Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:30:19 +0100
From: peter.j.hughes _at_ bt.com
Subject: RE: [HG] New Hurdy Gurdy CD's
-----Original Message-----
From: arle lommel [mailto:arle _at_ lisa.org]
Sent: 22 April 2002 20:09
Subject: Re: [HG] New Hurdy Gurdy CD's
<snip>
I was informed that most double keyboard HGs handle the multiple tangents by
making nyckelharpa-style slotted keys through which tangents can poke
through (see
http://www.nyckelharpa.org/pics/kontrabas.med.dubbellek.lek.big.jpg for an
example). Is this in fact the case? Or are they handled like the top key row
in some 4-row nyckelharpas
(http://www.nyckelharpa.org/pics/4row.upsidedown.jpg) in which one set of
tangent is pointing downward?
Chris Eaton in the UK uses the former method, but to maintain even string
pressure on the wheel when the key is pressed, the 2nd keyboard uses
rotating tangents which pivot close to the wheel axis.
It works very well, but it's a complicated, and thus expensive solution.
Peter.
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Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:58:36 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <Simon.Wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] New Hurdy Gurdy CD's
Hello,
I know of four different methods to play two notes at once on a hurdy
gurdy:
* an additional row of nyckelharpa keys, like Christopher Eaton uses to
build,
* a set of two conventional HG keyboards one above the other which I saw
on an instrument made by Guido Ronchail (I think - but I am not sure
about this since I saw this instrument six or seven years ago - the
upper set of tangents pointed downwards),
* an adjustment where some tangents are shorter and some are longer so
that a sample of two different notes can be played on two paralell
strings with one keyboard - as it sometimes accidentally happends on
'normal' hurdy gurdie's to,
* and last but not least the method I found and use with succsess for
some years now featuring a normal keyboard and two unison strings where
the tangents for one string are missing from the fifth diatonic key
upwards (needs some adjustment and practice, is limited in its harmonic
possibilities but priceless cheap as all you need is lesser tangents ;-)
.
regards
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
--
http://members.chello.at/simon.wascher/
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Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:16:14 -0500
From: arle lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] New Hurdy Gurdy CD's
Add to the list then Balázs' interleafed key-stem system, which gives
about a fifth or so of chromatic possibility on the secondary
keyboard. (I have heard Balázs use this to great effect, much like
your "missing tangent" system.)
So it seems there are (at least) five possibilities.
-Arle
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Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:40:53 -0700
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: [HG] Vielles en Fête
More information on the w-site
http://plumier.tripod.ca/index-3.html
Henry Boucher
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Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:04:56 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: [HG] Bridge gluing
As to why the bridge is usually glued onto the hurdy-gurdy:
It's the same reason that there's a little piece of wire or gut or nylon
between the tailpiece and the bridge.
The bridge on a violin sits at the center of an angle, bisecting the angle
made by the strings between the tailpiece and the nut. Consequently there
is no sideways force in either direction, and the entire force is directed
downwards, holding the bridge in place.
On a hurdy-gurdy the bridge is square to the sounding length of the
strings, and there's a considerable sideways force from the tailpiece
side. Most of the force is downward, but some of the force is toward the
head. If the bridge isn't glued down, it falls over into the wheel.
If this isn't clear, I'll draw a diagram ;-) (For those who haven't met me
in person, I'm a diagram addict.)
Alden
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Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 13:48:09 -0700
From: Christina Wright <ccwright _at_ blackandwright.net>
Subject: [HG] Vielle for sale
Today I received an e-mail from Gilles Chabenat asking me
to share with this list the fact that he is hoping to sell
one of his hurdy gurdies.
The one he wishes to sell was made by Siorat and is the
same one he used to make the CD with Frederic Paris, "de
l'ead et des amandes." His asking price is 6,000 euros.
If you are interested, you are invited to contact Gilles
directly by e-mail at gchabenat2 _at_ 9online.fr.
Yours ever as lurker-on-the-web,
Chris Wright
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Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:17:39 +0100
From: sarah <sarah _at_ californiafarm.co.uk>
Subject: [HG] hurdy gurdy course UK
>Residential Music Weekend Courses in Dorset, UK.
>Hurdy-Gurdy with Cliff Stapleton and Mike Eaton July 5th-7th 2002
>Harp, Celtic or Pedal, with Sarah Deere-Jones August 9th-11th
>English Bagpipes with Dave Faulkener August 30th-September 1st
>At The Old Barn, California Farm, Swanage, Dorset.
>Stay on this picturesque old farm in the Isle of Purbeck, free camping and
>meals provided, some B&B available. 35 pounds per person. More details
>www.californiafarm.co.uk/events.htm
>or email sarah _at_ californiafarm.co.uk
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Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:19:39 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Vielle rosin
I am curious, what happens if a person gets liquid rosin on to the cotton
that is on the string.
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Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:58:41 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] liquid rosin: help!
I wish to ask about how to apply liquid rosin.
How is this done?
I put the rosin, liquid rosin from a brown bottle, on the wheel.
It hit the cotton, which had thinned out a bit, and when it did,
it turned the cotton into a junky cement, sort of,
similar to rubber glue that I remember from when I was a kid.
It also got all on my finger tips and
nothing can get it to stop being very sticky on my skin.
The wheel, the strings, and all cotton seem 100% completely junked up.
What advice is there for this situation?
Thank you in advance!
Please help.
jim
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Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 18:27:20 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <Simon.Wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] liquid rosin: help!
Hello,
zhenya:
>
> I wish to ask about how to apply liquid rosin.
> How is this done?
just read through:
http://members.chello.at/simon.wascher/FAQliquid_rosin.htm
(...)
> The wheel, the strings, and all cotton seem 100% completely junked up.
>
> What advice is there for this situation?
ask *before* you act.
You can remove rosin with alcohol from any surface. If the surface in
question is alcohol-soluble (like som varnish) try car polish to clean.
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
--
http://members.chello.at/simon.wascher/
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Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:20:55 -0400
From: Beverly Woods <tradmusic _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] liquid rosin: help!
Liquid rosin? Sounds awful! Never heard of using that.
Obviously the cotton is trashed and you will have to start over with new
cotton. For cleaning it off your skin I would think something like those
citrus-based solvents might do the trick (Citra-Solv, the nontoxic
turpentine substitutes, etc.) I have NO idea whether these would be
destructive to your instrument or at least its finish, but I'd think there
is a good chance of that, so I would wait to get advice from someone in the
know before getting such a substance anywhere near your instrument or its
strings.
Beverly
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Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:39:31 -0500
From: arle lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] liquid rosin: help!
1. Take a deep breath and count to ten.
2. While the rosin is gooey there is little you can do. You need to
let the alcohol evaporate from the mixture. This shouldn't take too
long. Back the strings away from the wheel.
3. Throw away the cotton on your strings. It is useless now.
4. Take a soft clean lint-free cloth that won't pill and fold it up.
Hold the cloth against the wheel and turn it until the wheel isn't
tacky any more.
If your cotton fibers are stuck on the wheel surface you may need to
thin the rosin with rubbing alcohol and clean it off with your rag.
If this is the case, do not wait for your rosin to evaporate out.
Clean it now so that you are making use of the rosin's still being in
a semi-liquid state.
5. Take your strings and swab them with alcohol and clean them with your rag.
When your instrument is cleaned up then you can go about getting it
back in order. You are in for a messy job no matter what.
Others may disagree with this, but I avoid liquid rosin in most
instances unless I know that my wheel surface needs a serious drink.
The only time I have used it on a HG was after I had to true my wheel
a bit and had taken some surface off it in the process. (I have,
however, used it on new horse-hair bows for a psaltery to get them
primed to pick up solid rosin -- it works beautifully for this.)
By the way Jim, what are you using for cotton?. If you are using
cotton-ball type cotton I wouldn't touch liquid rosin. The fibers on
cotton you can get at drug stores is so short that anything sticky
will pull it apart. If you want some good cotton go to a
weaving/spinning supply store and ask for a small amount of a
long-fiber raw combed cotton. A spinner gave me mine and it works
beautifully. As with anything, it takes practice to cotton well.
Since you are new with your instrument this is something you will
need to learn to do. You might as well start learning with some
decent material if you don't already have some.
-Arle
P.S. if anyone knows better how to clean up a mess like that, please
correct me.
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Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:08:56 -0700
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: [HG] liquid rosin ,
Bonjour Beverly ,
I guess liquid rosin is a " West Coast " thing <g>
are you coming to the " Vielles en Fête " , may 11 ?
Henry
http://plumier.tripod.ca/index-3.html
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Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 23:53:04 +0200
From: Petra Kuehmichel <Petra.Kuehmichel _at_ t-online.de>
Subject: AW: [HG] liquid rosin: help!
Hi,
you poor. You shouldn`t use liquid rosin on a wooden wheel. It`s just too
strong.
Try to get rid of it with alcohol (as Simon told already).
But liquid rosin is quite useful on cotton (synthetic cosmetical one is the
best, I suppose). But be careful: just apply a few drops it with a match or
something like that.
good luck
Petra
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Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 17:34:23 -0500
From: arle lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org>
Subject: Re: AW: [HG] liquid rosin: help!
Hi all,
Petra wrote:
>synthetic cosmetical [cotton] is the best, I suppose...
This raises an interesting question. I wrote to Jim telling him not
to bother with cosmetic cotton balls for cottoning and to get long
fiber raw combed cotton. Petra says that cosmetic cotton (by which I
assume cotton balls) is best.
Before I got raw cotton I had horrible luck cottoning my strings, no
matter what I used. But maybe that's me.
Is there some consensus on what's best for cottoning? I remember
there was some discussion some time ago about silk, which, as I
recall, was supposed to be excellent but almost impossible to remove
from the strings when the time came because it is so much stronger
than cotton. I seem to recall someone even wanted to use wool that
had been washed in detergent to break the lanolin down.
So anyway, what do people use and what are the advantages and
drawbacks of each sort of material?
Best,
Arle
--
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Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 20:17:15 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] liquid rosin: help!
I am listening to everything. I tell myself to be quiet and learn.
What a day of learning. I feel like I've been through it.
~~
The liquid rosin wiped out the sound of everything.
I am working to dilute and reverse the application of it.
On the gut strings, it is like a small, cement (cotton) rock glued to the
string, even with the wheel.
Then when I lifted the loosened string, and shim, the shim kind of tore.
If one has no cotton there on the string, will the sound then be extremely
scratchy? (It is scratchy.)
How does one gauge (ascertain) the pressure of a string against the wheel in
order to reset a new shim?
I can feel the strings tension by gently lifting it with my two fingers, but
that is not telling me if it is too tight onto the wheel.
The alcohol is helping, I can tell. But, it is not super quick and the wheel
still like it has a lot of rosin coating it.
I tell myself that touching the wheel is not allowed, so I must only imagine
the rosin amount there.
~~
thanks so much...!
jim
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Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 18:00:37 -0700
From: SB/JW <duodrone _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] liquid rosin: help!
>
>How does one gauge (ascertain) the pressure of a string against the wheel in
>order to reset a new shim?
>I can feel the strings tension by gently lifting it with my two fingers, but
>that is not telling me if it is too tight onto the wheel.
You gauge the pressure on the wheel by eyesight, not by feel, the
string should be as close to a straight line between bridge and wheel
as possible. If you detect any angles, no matter how small, there is
too much pressure and you need to shim the bridge to raise the string
until it looks straight.
>The alcohol is helping, I can tell. But, it is not super quick and the wheel
>still like it has a lot of rosin coating it.
a bit of 600 sandpaper lightly applied might help here.
>I tell myself that touching the wheel is not allowed, so I must only imagine
>the rosin amount there.
At this point it seems that you can do no harm by touching the wheel,
but you can find out how the rosin situation is by playing a string.
Juan
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Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 20:06:44 -0500
From: Theo Bick <tbick _at_ austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re: AW: [HG] liquid rosin: help!
Hello,
I use what I think is real cotton but not long fibers. It doesn't have too
many little tiny clumps of bunched together cotton which is not good on the
chanters. I like it better than the real long haired cotton. You can
probably get some from a good hurdy gurdy builder or even from someone on
the list.
I know Matthias Loibner uses an old Santa Claus beard and his HG sounds
pretty good so you can experiment with different things. But if you are new
you might want to stay with the standard stuff.
Theo
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Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 21:48:03 -0500
From: Theo Bick <tbick _at_ austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] HG players in New Jersey, New York & Pennsylvania
Hello Jake,
What town are you in?
Theo
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Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 11:24:07 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <Simon.Wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: AW: [HG] liquid rosin: help!
Hello Petra and all,
Es schrieb Petra Kuehmichel:
> You shouldn`t use liquid rosin on a wooden wheel. It`s just too
> strong.
No.You can adjust the liquid rosin with adding alcohol in a way that it
is'nt strong at all. What you may have experienced is that when you
apply it to a wheel that was used with block rosin before, the alcohol
dilutes the rosin from the surface of the wheel so it seems to be
stronger than it is (even if you would use pure alcohol without rosin in
this situation this would seem to be sticky).
And also it needs more time to dry of on a wooden wheel.
I used liquid with succsess on Wood, MDF (also wood) and plastic.
For good reasons there are several methods to apply rosin and everyone
should choose the method one can coope with.
I understand that people have troubles to adapt their usual hurdy gurdy
habits to the use of liquid rosin but it is definitely not a nightmare,
and nobody ever suggested to spill a bottle of liquid rosin over a gurdy
for experimental reasons. In this line next thing could be to fix the
pegs and keys with superglue to stop them from slipping and then telling
everybody that superglue is ruining their instrument.
So as a conclusion:
liquid rosin affords to respect the power that lies within this stuff.
Alcohol is a strong disolver, rosin is a very sticky glue.
It is neccessary to follow the application rules closely. Best is to
learn its use directly from a player who permanently uses it.
Beginners should only use it if they learned it that way.
If that is not possible other methods are preferable for beginners but
by no means guarantee a good sounding result, just prevent the
unexperienced beginner from doing more harm to the instrument than
neccessary.
As liquid rosin is used succsessfully by many players for quite a while
now, if one has troubles using it, it may be reasonable to concider that
these troubles come from unexperienced use and not from the method
itself. Meaning seeking advice (and following it) could be a good
choisse.
another time:
http://members.chello.at/simon.wascher/FAQliquid_rosin.htm
auf deutsch:
http://members.chello.at/simon.wascher/FAQdrehleier.htm
regards,
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
---
http://members.chello.at/simon.wascher/
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Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 11:50:45 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <Simon.Wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: AW: [HG] liquid rosin: help!
Hello,
just a related joke (I hope my english translation is sufficient)
"piano playing does not exist:
I tried it three times but it never worked."
("Klavierspielen gibt es nicht: Ich habe es drei mal probiert und es ist
nichts dabei herausgekommen")
regards,
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 19:38:49 +0200
From: Helmut Gotschy <Helmut.Gotschy _at_ t-online.de>
Subject: Re: AW: [HG] liquid without rosin: help!
Hello Simon,
have you got a solution to get the rosin out of the alcohol again? I
urgently need somthing to dilute my brain and the gurdy stuff is too
greeky...
Yassu
Helmut
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Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 20:10:07 +0100
From: Ruth Bramley <ruthbramley _at_ btinternet.com>
Subject: [HG] Cotton wool
I've been reading with interest the discussions about cotton wool. I have
always heard that synthetic fibres are the best. I believe that 'MacDonalds
Snowdrops' (nothing to do with a certain fast food outlet!) was the best,
but that is no longer available. Cliff uses the small wad that is in the top
of vitamin pill bottles. I think it's viscose?
As a spinner, I have often considered the possibility of trying out
different fibres....I have quite a selection. I think silk would cause a lot
of problems as it is very strong indeed usually very long fibres too! All
sorts of things are available from fibre suppliers...check out
www.winghamwoolwork.co.uk if you are interested in such things. Wool fibres
might work although you would have to be sure to remove all the lanolin.
Flax would be too coarse and probably also mohair. Perhaps angora rabbit
would be worth a try, or even camel down. The strangest fibre I have spun is
that produced from plastic bottles....surprisingly pleasant...almost like
spinning silk, believe it or not.
Has anybody else tried any odd fibres on their strings?
Ruth
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 10:16:44 +0200
From: bryan tolley <bryan.tolley _at_ wanadoo.fr>
Subject: [HG] exhibition of vielles
Hello,
I thought I'd add a word and mention (for those of you who don't already
know about it) the exhibition currently being organised by the town of La
Châtre in collaboration with "Le Grenier à Sons" - Centre de musiques
traditionnelles en région- proposing and prolonging the Rencontres
Internationales de Luthiers et Maîtres Sonneurs de Saint Chartier.
This exhibition is entitled: Facteurs de vielles à roue en France au 21e
siècle, and it runs from April 16th to 20th of May at the Château d'Ars
at La Chârtre.
The publicity reads: "Instruments with rubbed strings and circular
bows", the hurdy-gurdy today is made by about twenty luthiers in France.
Essentially self-taught, they have been at the start musicians,
engineers, artisans, plasticiens; Their instruments resemble them,
models copied or reconstructed, traditional or electronic (midi
system). Respect these models, listen to the musicians, regard
their incessant perfection, their simple tricks of technique (use of
composite materials), this exhibition is a display of the top of the
hurdy-gurdy."
The exhibition presents the luthiers in portraits larger than life and
their instruments (a dozen models of hurdy-gurdies) displayed on a
contemporary setting (multimedia structures and settings).
The maker Bernard Kerboeuk will come and animate the exhibition and work
there the Saturdays 27 April, 4 and 18 May 2002. This is an original
exhibition and should not be missed!
Place: Château d'Ars, La Châtre
Dates: 16th April to 20 May 2002
Hours: Week: 14h-17h30 Closed Monday (Open Monday 20 May)
Week-end14H-18h30
Entry: 4.6 Euros
Information: Office de Tourisme de La Châtre 00 33 2 54 48 22 64
So why am I telling you all this? Because I too have an instrument in the
exhibition!
Cheerio.
Bryan Tolley
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 09:40:31 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] information on Reichmann hg
Hello and thank you so far,
This request is about a hurdy-gurdy that was made by Kurt Reichmann.
Things are going a good bit better now; I received help with the rosin
situation... thanks to everyone.
Next, I have an urgent need, actually an emergency now, to lubricate the
bearings.
May be someone here owns a Reichmann instrument?
1) To Remove the Axel:
Is it the usual sort of way with carefully securing the axel with a tool, a
pliers, and then unthreading the wheel by turning the axel towards me.
(after removing the little screw.)
Are there any surprise tricks to be careful of with a Reichmann hurdy-gurdy?
2) Does anyone know what the bearings are made of that he uses,
especially the inner bearings?
Thank you so much!
jim
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 19:08:43 +0200
From: Petra Kuehmichel <Petra.Kuehmichel _at_ t-online.de>
Subject: AW: [HG] information on Reichmann hg
Hi Zhenya,
I saw a lot of Reichmann HGs. They all had wooden bearings.
Reichmann himself told me, that he uses only wooden bearings because Hgs in
former times all had wooden bearings.
I never removed a wooden bearing on a Reichmann HG. And I don`t really know
whether it makes sense to lubricate them and what you´d use as
lubrification.
good luck
Petra
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Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 19:27:54 +0200
From: Petra Kuehmichel <Petra.Kuehmichel _at_ t-online.de>
Subject: AW: AW: [HG] liquid rosin: help!
Hello Simon and others,
of course you`re right: everyone has to find his own way and if you take
some time to find a good ratio of components you could use liquid rosin on
wooden wheel, too.
But in my opinion it may be the easiest way for beginners to use block
rosin. And at least I never found it worse than liquid rosin on the wheel.
What do you think? Is there any advantage using liquid rosin on a wheel?
best greetings
Petra
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Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:33:47 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <Simon.Wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: AW: AW: [HG] liquid rosin: help!
Hello Petra and others,
Petra Kuehmichel:
> What do you think? Is there any advantage using liquid rosin on a wheel?
my opinion:
A major advantage is the possibility of cleaning the wheel surface from
dust and fat every time one aplies rosin.
Also the wheel surface stays in a better condition since no scratches
and rosin crumbs occure as may happen with block rosin.
The applied rosin should keep the instrument going the next two to
twenty playing hours, depending on string pressure and local conditions.
I personaly own also a block of rosin for giving me a secure feeling
under stress on the stage because the block can be used faster, but in
fact rosin applied from the block does not last that long.
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
--
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
From Simon.Wascher _at_ chello.at Tue Sep 10 18:02:45 2002
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:42:55 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <Simon.Wascher _at_ chello.at>
Reply-To: hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com
To: hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com
Subject: Re: AW: [HG] information on Reichmann hg
Hello,
> And I don`t really know
> whether it makes sense to lubricate them and what you´d use as
> lubrification.
I heared Kurt Reichmann recomending used engine lubricating oil
("motoröl") pointing out that the microscopic flakes of steel within
this substance would infiltrate the wood and form a kind of coating what
he described as positve effect for the durability of the bearing.
I never tried this myself.
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
---
http://members.chello.at/simon.wascher/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 12:37:05 -0700
From: R. T. Taylor <shangrilart _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] exhibition of vielles
I hope that someone might be able to take some pictures of this exhibit.
and maybe collect a catalog if there is one.
That is a Hint Bryan!
By the way, If anyone is interested in buying any of the instruments that
Bryan makes, I can tell you that they are wonderful instruments with
beautiful sound and excellent construction and materials. I have 2 Hurdy
Gurdy's made by Bryan. They are easy to play and adjust.
Bryan had a stand at St. Chartier last year where he sold in addition to
Hurdy Gurdys, many other Renaissance and Baroque Instruments.
r.t.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 16:20:19 -0400
From: Judith Lindenau <judith _at_ taar.com>
Subject: [HG] Tilley/tolley again
R.T.---I thought you said Brian Tolley was a flamenco dancer,
and Brian Tilley was a hurdy gurdy player.
judith
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Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 13:29:44 -0700
From: R. T. Taylor <shangrilart _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Tilley/tolley again
No wonder I changed my name from Richard Taylor to R.T. Taylor.
Too many Richard Taylor's out there.
Brian Tilley plays HG and lives in the UK.
BRYAN Tolley plays HG, lives in France and also is a Flamenco dancer.
Although I don't think he plays HG and dances at the same time.
r.t.
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Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 19:51:18 -0500
From: Theo Bick <tbick _at_ austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re: AW: [HG] liquid rosin: help!
I like powdered rosin also. The only drawback is that it is a little messy
on your instrument because it doesn't all end up on the wheel. I just cut up
an old undershirt and put some powdered rosin in it along with 20 - 40
grains of rice to absorb moisture. I tie this up in a ball (about as big as
a strawberry ) with some string. The rosin seeps out throught the cloth and
you just touch the ball to the wheel lightly. You can get the rosin on
evenly and a little gets on the string cotton and you get a good grip
without gumming up your wheel. But my first choice is still liquid.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:56:21 -0700
From: R. T. Taylor <shangrilart _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: [HG] St. Chartier and Gennitines, 2002 web pages
The Festival at St. Chartier now has the 2002 web page available at:
http://www.saintchartier.org/flash.htm
You can find out almost everything about the festival here.
There are going to be some great performers this year.
July 11-14
____________________________________________________
Le Grand Bal de l'Europe near Gennetines also has there web page ready.
great music and dancing, all day, all night.
http://www.gennetines.org
July 15 - 21
r.t.
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Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 00:49:22 -0400
From: Eugene <eugenebienvenue _at_ softhome.net>
Subject: Re: AW: [HG] liquid rosin: help!
A really sensible idea.
Thanks very much.
Eugene
----- Original Message -----
From: "Theo Bick" <tbick _at_ austin.rr.com>
> I like powdered rosin also. The only drawback ...
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Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:36:07 +0100
From: peter.j.hughes _at_ bt.com
Subject: RE: [HG] St. Chartier and Gennitines, 2002 web pages
Oh RT, why did you have to mention that!!! The lineup looks excellent
and this year I probably can't go.
Waaaaaaaah!
Peter.
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Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:00:46 +0100
From: John Allwright <John.Allwright _at_ izodia.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] Cotton wool
My Mum recently volunteered small packet of finest Mancoon cat hair
harvested from her beloved "Sammi".
...no, I haven't tried it yet (worried it might make my HG sound even more
like a tortured feline!)
John
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Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 14:05:21 +0200
From: Jens Walter <jwalter _at_ zfs.tz.uni-stuttgart.de>
Subject: Re: AW: AW: [HG] liquid rosin: help!
I used a for a long time liquid rosin on my wooden wheel hg and it
worked very well. (By the way, I use the german "Brennspiritus", which
should be 96% denaturated C2H5OH, for resolving the rosin. It is very
cheap and easy avaible compared with buying the pure alcohol in a
pharmacy.) I preferred the liquid rosin because it is very easy to get a
regular cladding of the wheel with rosin in the right amount.
Now I increased the concentration because I found it more useful for
putting cotton on the strings. I was to lazy to mix a new
low-concentration stuff and therefore by time I use block rosin, but I
always fear to scratch the wheel.
If there is too much rosin on the wheel I use to rub it away with a soft
cloth, if necessary assisted by Spritius, but I never had such a GAU as
Zhenyia. With a cloth it is also possible to asses how many rosin there
is on the wheel without touching it.
The string pressure on the wheel I do not adjust by eye but by ear. With
an amount of rosin that the wheel feels not sticky the strings have to
give a nice sound and not a noise.
Jens
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Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 14:16:20 +0200
From: bryan tolley <bryan.tolley _at_ wanadoo.fr>
Subject: [HG] Tilley/Tolley for the last time!
Let me try and get this straight. I'm Bryan Tolley. I'm English, and I
play and make vielles in Anglet (next to Biarritz) in the sout-West of
France. My wife is the professional flamenco dancer, not me, but
sometimes I have danced a "Sevilliana" on stage with her troup for fun.
As for Brian Tilley I know nothing about the guy, but if R.T. says he's
also English, lives in the U.K. and plays vielle, then that's good enough
for me. You can find out more about Bryan Tolley (music, instruments,
flamenco and even some vielle playing marionettes) via
http://bryan-tolley.com
End of subject.
Concerning the exhibition of vielles at La Châtre, sorry R.T. but I don't
have a programme, maybe you can get something from the tourist office at
La Châtre Fax: 00 33 2 54 48 21 29
There is a nice big colour poster with all the makers pictured with their
instruments (including me!) Sorry, but it's too big to scan. This too
you can probably get from the Tourist Office.
Finally, thanks Richard for the nice complements you passed on my
instruments. I didn't realise that you had two of my vielles. Look
forward to meeting you again at Saint Chartier.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 11:11:18 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: AW: [HG] lubricants
Thanks to everyone who continues to offer helpful advice!
I hope it all continues--and I know that it does.
It's a pretty, very snowy morning in Maine as I tinker this with lute-back
Reichmann..
I have the axel and wheel out now! That went fine.
Being a trombonist, I became fixated on wanting to lubricate the moving axel
inside.
(Making reference to the slide on a trombone.)
Also, the axel was groaning as it turned--just one of about four problems
that are being tackled.
It looks like there were no surprises taking the axel from the wheel.
Except that there are no rolling bearings that I can see. None there at all.
I guess that is a surprise.
Also, the inside is quite messy visually, with visible glue and cloth
strips.
Perhaps that was a fix if the seam of the staves were not joined perfectly;
I'm guessing. The instrument seems solid and with charm, but kinda rustic.
I hope it is ok the write that as a description.
The "bearings" seem to be just a synthetic material, tube ring at the two
ends. Like
two black, sung, small tubes--with no rollers at all. Would it be called a
sleeve bearing?
The steel axel very simply rolls in those small, tube-like rings.
Sort of a plastic like and flat black. It reminded me of graphite, at first.
Very light weight. The end sleeve under the keybox is set in there, I guess
glued. It will not come
out, so I will reach and apply some bearing grease.
This a reddish, all-purpose lithium and soap base grease.
It says multi purpose, machine grease.
I did ask someone (two experts) and was told this sort of grease might be ok
as long as the bearings were
truly not wood bearings.
Ongoing: the balance between cotton and rosin seems to be a thrill.
At some point, I plan to start from the beginning with the list archives and
read everything.
(May be that should be edited to be a book someday.)
I wish to post to everyone one more article after this letter, this morning.
Only if you are not at all busy, or if you are bit of a engineer about all
of this.
Which might suggest a moment to pause and wonder what sort of personality is
a hurdy-gurdy player.
But the next post is about wood bearings--if they had turned up today
instead of these sleeves.
~~~
jim
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 11:13:24 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: AW: [HG] a treaties in favor of wooden bearrings
I found this on the web. I copy it here since it seems easier to read adn
this combines two pages. I
edited and left out something that was called P/V index or rating.
~Bearing evolution~ :)
The first recorded wooden bearings were on wagons pre-served from the third
millennium B.C. About 2000 B.C. in Jericho, the first use of lubricant in
bearings was recorded. They were the precursor to the modern cylindrical
fluid-film bearing which enabled the development of high-load, high-speed
machinery. Cylindrical bearings started another evolu-tionary process that
deals with their susceptibility to fluid-induced instability. Dams, pockets,
modified geometry, and tilting pads followed, in attempts to add radial
forces and interrupt the continuous fluid path to increase the stability of
the bearing. Although the stability of the bearing increases, trade-offs
involve uniqueness, decreased load-carrying capability, increased size, and
increased cost. The first recorded use of rolling element bearings in rotary
motion is in A.D. 50 in two Roman pleasure boats recovered from Lake Nemi,
Italy.
Wooden bearings have been supporting rotating shafts successfully for
thousands of years and will continue to do so in the future.
Most people think of bearings as metal assemblies of races and rolling
elements. While engineers and mechanics may also envision plain bearings
made of soft metals and plastics, not many people are willing to accept
bearings made out of wood.
People have been using rotating shafts of one sort or another for thousands
of years. While we might not think of wood as an effective bearing material,
it was almost certainly the material used by the inventor of the wheel.
Surprisingly, several thousand years have done little to limit the appeal of
wood as a bearing material.
Historical applications
Wooden bearings, usually lubricated with tallow or other animal fat, were
used by the ancients-and everyone since-on carts and wagons of all sorts.
Remember those epic Technicolor films with the thundering horses and
chariots? Those gory wrecks with the disintegrating wheels were probably
all-too realistic: the tallowed wheel bearing probably wouldn't have
tolerated sustained high speed without overheating, likely with disastrous
results.
Wooden bearings supported a wide variety of stationary machines as well,
from milling machinery to water wheels and pumps, construction cranes and
even siege engines. Wood was plentiful in most locations; it was strong and
shaft-friendly, long lasting, and easy to replace. It was the natural choice
for most bearing purposes.
When the steering sweeps on ships gave way to vertical rudder shafts, wood
was the bearing material of choice. Lignum vitae, an extremely dense,
tropical hardwood, was found to be best for this and other submerged marine
applications. So dense that it will not float, "lig" has a high natural oil
content, making it self-lubricating and especially resistant to
deterioration in water.
When kept wet, as in most shipboard applications, lig possesses tremendous
strength and wear resistance. When steam propulsion arose, lignum vitae
became the bearing for propeller shafts, and it was common to see bearings
last scores of years-frequently as long as the ships themselves.
Lignum vitae naturally attracted landlubbers' interest, and it became a
popular bearing material for waterwheels. Many hydro turbines today still
operate on lignum vitae bearings installed 50 or more years ago, despite
having received little or no maintenance since their installation.
Lig was commonly used in the most demanding applications. In 1722, John
Harrison built a friction-free tower clock in Brocklesby Park, England, that
still tells time. The bearings were made of lignum vitae. (Harrison went on
to complete a successful 40-year quest for the first reliable means to
determine longitude at sea.)
Lig was relatively rare anywhere more than a few degrees north or south of
the equator. Less demanding applications were addressed with whatever wood
was available, with varying degrees of success.
~~
All woods possess structural attributes and can furnish naturally occurring
or artificially introduced lubricants via their grain structure. Some are
far better than others, but in a pinch, any wood will do for a time. Check
out the turbine bearings in old grain mills and you may find apple, pine or
several species cobbled together. Often, these were temporary installations
that lasted long enough to gain permanent status.
Materials
In 1839, Isaac Babbitt developed a revolutionary antifriction alloy with a
low melting temperature. Poured into a mold around an iron shaft, it formed
a durable bearing surface. The arrival of babbitt metal put a serious crimp
in wood's dominance as a bearing material, but wood retains a valid place,
even today.
Lignum vitae (Guaiacum Officinale, Guaiacum Sanctum) is a slow-growing wood.
Taking 300 or more years to achieve significant size, and long prized as a
bearing material, lignum vitae has become scarce and is no longer viable for
the bearing designer, except where stashes of old material can be found.
Innovative bearing manufacturers replaced lignum vitae in most applications
with rock maple (Acer Saccharatum), impregnated with petroleum wax. While
not as durable as lig in wet applications, impregnated maple displays
different, but equally attractive, properties in dry service.
When used in outdoor conveyors, particularly those carrying agricultural
products, impregnated maple's compressibility becomes a real virtue. When
sand or grit makes its way into the journal interface, it can cut both steel
shafts and metal bearings. While plastic bearings, such as UHMW
polyethylene, will be lacerated by intruding abrasive particles, their
"self-healing" properties constantly work to expel abrasives from the cut,
back into the journal interface, where shaft damage can occur. A vicious
cycle of cut-expel-cut can ensue, and the shaft can quickly suffer severe
abrasive damage.
In contrast, wood's compressible fiber structure often allows intruding
abrasives to be driven into the wood and held in place. The contaminant is
buried, covered with a film of lubricant, and becomes a benign part of the
bearing. Minimal shaft damage occurs.
Maple, itself a hard, dense wood, exhibits impressive capillary action. When
completely impregnated with the right wax, maple carries a heavy load of
lubricant. At room temperatures, the lubricant remains a solid, stored in
the wood's fibers. As the shaft rotates, friction heats the lubricant beyond
the melting point, and oil flows into the journal, providing boundary
lubrication. As temperature continues to increase, more wax is melted, and
lubricant eventually floods the journal interface, supporting the shaft in a
hydrodynamic state. When the shaft stops, the journal cools. Liquid
lubricant is drawn back into the bearing by capillary action where it
solidifies, awaiting the next use of the shaft. Impregnated maple is thus a
permanently lubricated material.
~~
Impregnated wood is a valid alternative to many common bearing plastics,
such as Teflon, Nylon, and high molecular weight polyethylenes. Although
wood lacks the inherent lubricity of Teflon and UHMW-PE, it can tolerate
greater loads and speeds than most plastics, and permits less shaft damage
in abrasive environments.
Design considerations
For wood to serve best, the grain direction must be considered. If the shaft
turns parallel to the grain of the wood bearing, lubricant will flow
parallel to the shaft, and will not provide friction reduction where it is
needed. Improper grain direction is the most common design error in wood
bearings applications.
Improper grain direction is the most common design error in wood bearings.
Properly applied, the wood grain in the bearing lies perpendicular to the
axis of the shaft. End-grain should face the moving surface of the shaft.
This presents the wood's natural oil-delivery system directly to the
journal, providing the best lubrication.
End-grain should face the moving surface of the shaft.
Where large bearings are required, it isn't necessary to find a block of
wood large enough to make the whole bearing. Smaller pieces of untreated
wood can be glued into larger sections before being impregnated with oil.
With very strong woods such as lig, a large bearing can be made up of radial
staves, either built into a holder, or assembled with spacers and bolts. As
long as the exposed area of the bearing is large enough to keep load beneath
the maximum pressure rating, stave bearings can work as well as-or better
than-solid pillow blocks.
Comparative P/V ratings
In addition to grain orientation, speed and load must be taken into account.
Impregnated maple has a P/V factor of 12,000, with a maximum P or V of
2,000. This means that impregnated maple can be used in applications where
the load (P) is less than 2,000 pounds per inch of exposed area, where
velocity (V) is less than 2,000 surface feet per minute, and where the
product of load and speed does not exceed 12,000. These are maximum limits,
and they must be reduced by safety factors appropriate for the application.
Modern applications
Wood bearings are available in a variety of configurations, from screw
conveyor hanger bearings to sleeve bearings, roll ends and self-centering
spheres. Wood bearing manufacturers offer an almost limitless selection of
custom pillow blocks and inserts for odd-shaped holders.
Many wood bearing applications lie in agricultural process and handling
machinery. The presence of dust and grit in this environment makes wood an
ideally shaft-friendly material. Equipment ranges from harvesters and field
implements; belt, roll and screw conveyors; fruit and vegetable washers and
other primary agricultural processing machinery. Wood is an indispensable
material for processors who harvest produce directly from the field. Wood
should also be considered for conveying and processing mineral products and
abrasive chemicals.
Wood retains a place in wet applications. Even when large cross sections of
lignum vitae are no longer available, arrays of small staves can still be
used to build rugged, long-lasting bearings for waterwheels and turbines.
Impregnated maple can effectively address other wet applications. These
begin with bearings for submerged drag chain and sludge conveyors, and range
to bearings for snowblower augers and water theme park rides. One Israeli
application consists of a wood bearing which supports a turntable driven by
a tethered cow. The shaft passes through the bearing, down to the impeller
of a low-speed irrigation pump.
Wood is a popular material for wear strips in bucket elevators that carry
dry materials. It has traditionally been used for small diameter, high-speed
bearings in paper folding machinery because of its natural noise-dampening
properties. Wood can be just as effective for quieting small, low-load,
high-speed shafts that "sing" at high pitch when supported in metallic
bearings.
While bearing makers have put their stone tools aside in favor of CNC
machinery, there remain many applications where an old technology still
provides the greatest satisfaction. When addressing thorny design problems,
it may not be necessary to reinvent the wheel.
// J.R. Steuernagle, Woodex Bearing Co., Inc., Georgetown, Maine
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:20:28 -0500
From: arle lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org>
Subject: Re: AW: [HG] lubricants
Hi Jim,
I think the cloth strips on the backs of the staves is not a problem.
I have seen drawings of historical instruments that used linen strips
to reinforce the seams which otherwise have very low mechanical
strength and would tend to be easily broken. The cloth strips serve
to keep the forces on the glue joints in the wood to a minimum. Not a
problem at all or a sign of inferior workmanship.
-Arle
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 17:41:28 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: AW: [HG] lubricants
Hello Jim and others,
zhenya:
> Except that there are no rolling bearings that I can see. None there at all.
> I guess that is a surprise.
No. rolling bearings are the exeption.
> Also, the inside is quite messy visually, with visible glue and cloth
> strips.
cloth (or paper) strips are a usual 'stabilizer' for luthe(back)
constructions.
> Ongoing: the balance between cotton and rosin seems to be a thrill.
> At some point, I plan to start from the beginning with the list archives and
> read everything.
> (May be that should be edited to be a book someday.)
Do you own Volker Heidemann and Philippe Destrem 'The Hurdy-Gurdy',
Verlag der Spielleute ?
(2. edition 1998, 92 pages 4, ISBN: 3-927240-15-x, 21.90 Euro)
if not: stop adjusting, go for a bookshop, order and wait for the
postman. This is the most efficient you could do in such a situation.
> Which might suggest a moment to pause and wonder what sort of personality is
> a hurdy-gurdy player.
a joke:
what do hurdy gurdy players use for birth control ?
their personality.
:o)
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Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:09:42 +0200
From: Jens Walter <jwalter _at_ zfs.tz.uni-stuttgart.de>
Subject: Re: AW: [HG] lubricants
Hallo Simon and rest,
> Do you own Volker Heidemann and Philippe Destrem 'The Hurdy-Gurdy',
> Verlag der Spielleute ?
> (2. edition 1998, 92 pages 4, ISBN: 3-927240-15-x, 21.90 Euro)
> if not: stop adjusting, go for a bookshop, order and wait for the
> postman. This is the most efficient you could do in such a situation.
I own this book. I think it gives good basical information regarding the
hg, but for a lot of things this newgroup gives a larger variety of
information. For some things like the g-trompette, the choice of the
strings and the building of the chien I found the book more obstructive
than useful. What is described there only ONE way but in my opinion not
the best one. Do you know wheter there is another book regarding the
maintanance of the hg?
regards
Jens
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Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:09:50 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: AW: [HG] a treaties in favor of wooden bearrings
Hello Jim,
could you supply the URL of this text ?
thanx
Simon Wascher, Vienna/Austria
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Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:32:39 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: AW: [HG] lubricants
Hello Jens and others,
> > (...)Volker Heidemann and Philippe Destrem 'The Hurdy-Gurdy',(...)
> I own this book. I think it gives good basical information regarding the
> hg, but for a lot of things this newgroup gives a larger variety of
> information. For some things like the g-trompette, the choice of the
> strings and the building of the chien I found the book more obstructive
> than useful. What is described there only ONE way but in my opinion not
> the best one.
I agree, but to know one way is much better than none. In many cases the
described conservative info in the book is very suitable for beginners.
Liquid rosin is a good example for this: It is very good for an versed
player, but obviously tricky for newbies.
I belive the Destrem/Heidemann book is a must to get basic info and it
serves beginners in their first years of playing well.
Simon Wascher, Vienna/Austria
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Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:56:25 -0700
From: Katie Roe <Katie.Roe _at_ wizards.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] Cotton wool
Funny you should ask this. I've wondered what would have been used in the
Middle Ages, as cotton was VERY expensive (if even available) and Silk
was even worse. I went to a spinning shop in Seattle with another player
and we looked at all the possibilities. We came away with several types
of fibers to try. Between us we brought home linen/cotton blend, flax,
Super washed Morino wool, baby camel down, and a couple of silk blends.
So far I have tried some of the silk blends and the linen/cotton blend.
My trompette tends to have a very harsh, scratchy sound, but the sound
got smoother when I used the linen/cotton blend.
Katie
Ruth Bramley writes:
I've been reading with interest the discussions about cotton wool. I
have
always heard that synthetic fibres are the best. I believe that
'MacDonalds
Snowdrops' (nothing to do with a certain fast food outlet!) was the
best,
but that is no longer available. Cliff uses the small wad that is in
the top
of vitamin pill bottles. I think it's viscose?
As a spinner, I have often considered the possibility of trying out
different fibres....I have quite a selection. I think silk would
cause a lot
of problems as it is very strong indeed usually very long fibres too!
All
sorts of things are available from fibre suppliers...check out
www.winghamwoolwork.co.uk if you are interested in such things. Wool
fibres
might work although you would have to be sure to remove all the
lanolin.
Flax would be too coarse and probably also mohair. Perhaps angora
rabbit
would be worth a try, or even camel down. The strangest fibre I have
spun is
that produced from plastic bottles....surprisingly pleasant...almost
like
spinning silk, believe it or not.
Has anybody else tried any odd fibres on their strings?
Ruth
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Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 14:36:01 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: AW: [HG] a treaties in favor of wooden bearrings/
Hello Simon...
I sure do enjoy hearing your thoughts.
Yes, I do have the book on Maintenance. Certainly yes.
I have read may be four times so far. I am trying to get better.
I have felt not so smart.
The wheel is back in now and it sounds pretty ok.
Here is the site that is about the same as the letter text from this
morning, but with some graphics and a little more
information/statistics.
http://www.plantservices.com/web_first/ps.nsf/Contents/862568C90071758186256
9E0004F73A3?OpenDocument
A long address, so see if that opens up.
I thought it seemed really fun to read.
(a history of wooden bearings...)
to Simon: do you ever play somewhere and wish to soften the sound of the
hurdy gurdy?
I only wondered.
Like a small place doing dinner music?
Strange thought, but I wondered.
I wondered what your reaction would be to any volume adjustment on a
hurdy-gurdy.
With mine, possibly the melody is too weak compared to the drones, yet I'd
rather soften the drones.
What about more cotton?
The one here is only medium volume. It is a smallish lute back.
Do you ever play now on a lute-back one?
Just curious.
~~
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Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:46:39 -1000
From: Don Lax <donvlax _at_ maui.net>
Subject: [HG] humidity and h-g's
Hi all-
I was very excited to note a thread starting about how to deal with
humidity. I live on Maui, and the humidity here borders on insanity. For
instance, I have to rehair my violin bow every six weeks, instead of
every six months... I just finished filing out the key slots on my new
Gotschy lute back, as within a month the wood had all swelled up and
almost every key was stuck. Now it plays fine, and with Theo Bick's
advice, I've bought and applied some microfine teflon powder to the ends
of the keys. Any other advice would be most welcome, as the nearest
hurdy gurdy maker to me is over 2000 miles away... And thank God for the
Destrem-Heidemann!!!
And I'd like to publicly acknowledge and thank Theo for making the trek
out here to the middle of the Pacific ocean. He came and stayed for a
week and gave me the perfect course of instruction for getting me up and
running with my new lute-back. Thanks Theo!!!
Aloha-
Don
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Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 16:50:10 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] tangents
I am curious:
1) is wood filler a possible material to fill a tiny string-dent
impression in the tangent?
2) How would I even get under a stuck, tiny tangent in order to steady it?
thanks,
jim
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Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 23:57:21 +0200
From: Petra Kuehmichel <Petra.Kuehmichel _at_ t-online.de>
Subject: AW: AW: [HG] lubricants
Hello Jens,
I agree and unfortunately (!!!!) I don`t know any better publication about
maintenance of HGs. I also don`t think it`s really well for beginners. But
it`s not really bad. So I still recommend it.
Maybe someone of the list knows another (and better?) publication?! But I`m
afraid there`s none.
Petra
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Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 17:13:05 -0600
From: Barry Black <bbc0 _at_ shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: AW: [HG] lubricants
Maybe Volker Heidemann and Philippe Destrem 'The Hurdy-Gurdy', looses
something in the various translations. It was recommended to me but I have
to say I have learned more reading the postings here than from the book.
it's not a cheap book either.
Barry
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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 09:25:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: D &H,
Webpages. [was:hurdy gurdy maintainance/[was: [HG] lubricants]]
I have always viewed Volker Heidemann and Philippe Destrem 'The
Hurdy-Gurdy', ("The Red Book", D & H) as guidelines...the foundation,
or the First Word. I believe it covers the topic about as well as can
be done in it's format (book).
Some of the info can be much more easily absorbed (i.e. cottoning) by
watching it done; that's one reason we have festivals. and there is at
least one video cassette available on the subject.
Most of the information is useful as applied. The book doesn't always
make a lot of sense if read like a novel (clever plot-twist in a few
places, though...) but the meaning becomes more apparent as you try
it. I don't know about the "personality of a Hurdy Gurdy player", but
the personality of a Hurdy Gurdy seems to me marked by rugged
individualism, or as Alden frequently suggests: "Your mileage may
vary". So you will need to adjust to your instrument. Hence the First
Word, not the Last Word.
Yes, all of the HG books are expensive, so are strings. I doubt that
anyone is going to publish anything better/cheaper (in English anyway),
simply because of the limited market appeal.
Simon's idea of info pages is feasible; when new members ask FAQs we
can reply with a link specific to the question. One thing we should
consider is the load on our host/webmaster whose time is better served
providing instruments and that video cassette. Anyone that's interested
in this project should publish a web page on their pet topic.
Simple-format text-only pages probably are best for universal access,
but I don't think the extant information can be improved on without
illustration. I heartily discourage the other extreme: Streaming
Video*. In certain cases the best alternative might be a series of
(captioned) images in comic book format. It's your page, you decide.
At best, this could substantially increase the amount of HG knowledge
on the web, without throwing the load on people with better things to
do. At worst it should still afford us topic for argument (O.K.
"discussion") for the foreseeable future.
Love & Kisses <smirk>
Roy Trotter, pringtown, Tx, USA
*(Streaming Video) Unless you are willing to provide it in at least
three formats: Quicktime, Windows Media, and Shockwave, and provide
VERY CLEAN video that will display well on dialup access. Also bearing
in mind that nobody is going to buy a new computer or Operating System
(talk about expensive) to be able to view your pages "properly". Even
with all that, the local ISP server and/or POTS line might not be up to
the task.
Sorry about the sermon. My "Clark Kent" job is Internet Tech Support, I
care about these things, too deeply.
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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:32:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] tangents
> 1) is wood filler a possible material to fill a tiny string-dent
> impression in the tangent?
No. If the dent is serious enough to interfere with the tone, the tangent
should be replaced. Alternatively, the tangent can be filed down to get
rid of the dent, but the other tangent on the same key must be filed
down as well, and both will now have a larger gap between the resting
tangent and the key.
In the guitar / lute / fretted instrument world, this distance is called
the action. I don't know if anyone else in the HG world calls it by this
name, but we do. ;-)
>
> 2) How would I even get under a stuck, tiny tangent in order to steady
> it?
Often the best approch to fixing a tangent problem is to remove the
tangent so that you can work on it. If it's really stuck, use a pair of
broad, flat-nosed pliers to remove it, gripping it as near to the key as
possible. If you hear a cracking sound, you've split the tangent, and
it's time for a new one.
Alden
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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 18:41:42 +0100
From: Dave Holland <dave _at_ biff.org.uk>
Subject: Re: AW: [HG] lubricants
On Mon, Apr 29, 2002 at 05:41:28PM +0200, Simon Wascher wrote:
> Do you own Volker Heidemann and Philippe Destrem 'The Hurdy-Gurdy',
> Verlag der Spielleute ?
Is there a UK stockist for this book, or will I have to get Dusty
Strings to airmail it to me?
Thanks,
Dave
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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:04:34 -0500
From: arle lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org>
Subject: [HG] Re: Jim's drone frustrations
What sorts of strings do you have on your luteback Jim? Your strings,
their material, and their tension all have an impact on the volume.
When I got my tekerõ I had the same problem as what you describe. My
instrument came with two nylon strings (high grade ones) for the
melody and the tenor drone/dog. The bass drone was a thick gut string
of a rather mediocre quality.
After a while I pulled the melody string off my instrument and found
a string on my wife's harp that matched it in gauge. (No I didn't
cannibalize my wife's harp. HGs may drive men to desperation, but not
that far...). I then went to a local music shop and spent $14 or so
on a gut harp string for the same note as my wife's nylon string. The
gut string is higher tension than the old nylon string, but created a
marked improvement in tone and balance as soon as I switched to it. I
left the tenor drone with its nylon string since I didn't want to
bring it out too.
If you are really bored or inquisitive, look up Denis Havlena's site
and look at all his stuff on using Weed Eater filament for strings. I
wouldn't necessarily recommend them, but he makes various instruments
using them and actually likes them.
Best,
Arle
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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 19:37:36 +0100
From: John Allwright <John.Allwright _at_ izodia.com>
Subject: [HG] Destrem & Heidemann stockist
I ordered my copy from Amazon Deutschland for delivery to the UK :
http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/392724015X/qid%3D1020191419/028-352067
2-0851707
Total cost including delivery Eur 26.06, 2-3 days lead time
John
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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:02:41 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Destrem & Heidemann stockist
By the way, when you see a link like this that goes to the next line, it
would need the whole thing to work correctly.
http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/392724015X/qid%3D1020191419/028-352067
2-0851707
That was for the Deestrem-Volkermann book.
It is a cool book.
I think I paid $50...
jim
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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:06:43 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] string choices
Should I consider a viola string for the chanterelle #2.
They are $20, but come wound or unwound.
Or would a viola G string be better?
They also come wound or un wound.
I felt undecided, but a tiny bit i the mood to try the octave set up for the
two chanterelles.
Any thoughts?
jim
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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 16:53:00 -0400
From: Matthew Szostak <gurdy _at_ midcoast.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] tangents
>
> > 2) How would I even get under a stuck, tiny tangent in order to steady
> > it?
>
>Often the best approch to fixing a tangent problem is to remove the
>tangent so that you can work on it. If it's really stuck, use a pair of
>broad, flat-nosed pliers to remove it, gripping it as near to the key as
>possible. If you hear a cracking sound, you've split the tangent, and
>it's time for a new one.
>
>Alden
Unless the cracking sound is the key splitting? I've never experienced it,
but I've been very nervous about removing tangents which have been
installed in their keys for such a long time that, after years of expansion
and contraction, the bit sticking out below the key is flared wider than
the hole. The tangent turns freely "in position," but when you try to pull
it out, it quickly becomes stuck fast. Alden, you guys have replaced many
tangents of this type - how much of a concern is this?
~ Matt
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