Hurdy-gurdy Mailing List - August 2002
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Our deepest thanks to Maxou Heintzen for this fabulous photograph, taken at Saint-Cloud near Paris in 1957 by an unknown photographer.
The following are the archives of the Hurdy-gurdy Mailing List, sponsored by Alden and Cali Hackmann of Olympic Musical Instruments.
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Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 08:52:24 +0200
From: Lauwers.P <Lauwers.P _at_ itc.mil.be>
Subject: RE: [HG] Book,
Marc,
The offer to help with the translation still stands. If you have the OK from
the Vereniging voor Huismuziek please contact me.
By the way, I'm starting the music and HG course at the music academy at
Gooik in September. So, if it rains around Brussels in the future, blame me.
Pieter Lauwers
Lauwers.p _at_ itc.mil.be <mailto:Lauwers.p _at_ itc.mil.be>
-----Original Message-----
From: Marc Reymen [mailto:reymen _at_ pandora.be]
Sent: maandag 29 juli 2002 22:14
To: hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com
Subject: Re: [HG] Book,
Hello,
That book is not avalable anymore but....
I asked mr dewit a week ago whether he would agree if there
was someone
who wants to make a translation not only for the city but
for the
world...
He hes no problems whith it but ...
The book is written some years ago so not exactly up to
date.
- Herman nows that somethings can be done better now
- the copywright on this book is not whith him anymore but
whith "
vereniging voor Huismuziek"
So I 'll kontakt them...
The drawing i have to so.....
Please send me your adress so we can arange things...
Marc
reymen _at_ pandora.be
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Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 08:17:29 +0100
From: Ruth Bramley <ruthbramley _at_ btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] St. Chartier
Mark wrote:
> OK, not quite finally - I met up again with my friend Koen, tried some
> instruments out on the makers' stands together, and I even bought one!
> Thanks Koen, and when I get good enough in G, we must play together
> someday!
Is that my dear friend Koen Van Daele from Belgium? I was very sorry to have
missed St Chartier...I'm one of the organisers of Ely Folk Weekend, which
just happened to clash this year...the weather here was absolutely brilliant
that weekend!
Ruthie
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Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 13:53:48 +0200
From: simon.wascher _at_ chello.at
Subject: AW: Re: [HG] St. Chartier
Hello,
according to my personal statistics:
The first official night was very cold but dry.
The second (friday) was very wet ( finally the bulgarians *did* play and Ti
jazz made it to the stage). Dance sessions o.k. but affected by the rain.
The saturday night was cold but ok, at least I had some brilliant session,
Sunday night was mild, dry and great. When I left totally ehxausted at five
four dance-stages were still busy (Red Dog Green Dog still playing).
Whilst festival it rained all in all about 26 hours at a total durance of about
85 hours.
So it was better than some years as far as it is a matter of the weather if one
says it was 'good'.
thanks good the audience did not appear in that big numbers as in the worst years,
those years when Yann and others played here, the festival still isn't cured from
the aftermaths of this (Djembes...)
regards
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Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 04:34:46 -0700
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: [HG] on EBay now: "Hurdy Gurdy by Colson a Mirecourt, ca. 1850s"
Hurdy Gurdy by Colson a Mirecourt, ca. 1850s
"An all original hurdy gurdy, bearing the original stamp: Colson Mirecourt.
Unrestored, a carved mans head, 9 rosewood and flamed maple stripes in the
back, original ebony pegs, one of the bridges is unprofessionally glued to
the top, top separating from the bowl on one side, two buttons and 7 string
shorteners on the keyboard are missing, ivory and ebony purfling, wheel is
turning, original handle, wheel cover does not fit it might be from a later
date, ivory string tuner on the tailpiece, total length 66 cm, length of the
keyboard box 30 cm, height in the middle 9 cm, length of the body 50 cm."
It's here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=896725960
No bids.
--JulieR
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Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 10:58:33 -0400
From: Judith Lindenau <judith _at_ taar.com>
Subject: [HG] For Sale sighting.....
http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/200U-242.htm
judith
Judith Lindenau,CAE, RCE
Executive Vice President
Traverse Area Association of Realtors
www.taar.com
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Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 09:20:01 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] For Sale sighting.....
>http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/200U-242.htm
Wow - long scale length!
Anyone care to comment on the extra keys on the top row? Quarter tones
perhaps...
Alden
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Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 11:08:25 -0700
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: [HG] hurdy gurdy article in "Mugwumps"?
Can anybody comment on the Mugwumps article from the 1974, volume 3 #2,
about building a hurdy gurdy? I've come across the magazine a couple of
times in auctions (there's one right now at Elderly Instruments
(http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/464-2.htm) recently, but haven't seen
it in person yet.
--JulieR
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Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 20:00:46 -0400
From: Judith Lindenau <judith _at_ taar.com>
Subject: [HG] "The Rising"...and the hurdy gurdy
From the credits on Bruce Springsteen's new album,
"The Rising":
"Brendan O'Brien - Hurdy gurdy, glockenspiel on "Into The Fire";
glockenspiel, orchestra bells on "Waitin' On A Sunny Day";
hurdy gurdy on "Empty Sky""
judith
Judith Lindenau, CAE, RCE
Executive Vice President
Traverse Area Association of Realtors
www.taar.com
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Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 00:09:42 +0000
From: Asier B.G. <asierdbg _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] For Sale sighting.....
Good piece but, why two keys in the tailpiece if it only have one single
trompette????
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Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 01:22:13 -0700
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: [HG] "Hurdy Gurdy, Provincial, 11-Note, 27 inch" ??
Here's an oldie in bad shape...
http://www.p4a.com/itemsummary/20394.htm
(And there are a couple listed for sale at
http://www.rfcharle.com/HTML/ListeA.html)
--JulieR
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Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 13:00:41 -0700
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [HG] "Hurdy Gurdy, Provincial, 11-Note, 27 inch" ??
That one http://www.p4a.com/itemsummary/20394.htm
is an Ukrainian " Lyrniki " instrument , notice the equally spaced
keys . There are pictures of such instruments in the book
" Vielle a Roue , Espaces Infinis " published by Modal .
Sad thing about it , most Lyrniki players were executed
by order of Stalin , in the mid '30. I rather let somebody
else explain this event .
I wanted to discuss the equally spaced keys system
on this forum since a while . I wonder how it sounds ?
There is a similar instrument at the Boston museum of fine arts
a few years ago it was described as a French instrument
( maybe it still is ? )
Henry
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Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 13:49:50 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] "The Rising"...and the hurdy gurdy
Have you heard it? How does it sound?
Alden
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Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 23:11:06 -0500
From: Theo Bick <tbick _at_ austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Liquid rosin
Hello,
I just recently got back from France and found this e-mail.
> Hi Don,
> I concur with your remarks re Propan-2-ol[isopropyl]. Any purity
over
> 90% is fine. My technique is to put all 6 strings in contact with the
wheel,
> use copious amounts of block rosin on the wheel and coat the strings'
cotton
> thoroughly. Using a clean linen hankerchief,form a pad and soaked in
> alcohol, remove the majority of the rosin from the wheel as you turn [4-5
> seconds]. Dry off the wheel with another clean cloth[4-5 secs], keep
turning
> and the friction dries out the strings' cotton very quickly. Minimal rosin
> to the wheel afterwards produces brilliant tone. At this purity, the
> alcohol's volatility is such that there is absolutely no chance of raising
> the wheel grain. I've done this for 5 years without any problems. Using
pure
> shot silk fibres[pulled from a pure silk scarf or similar instead of
cotton
> gives an unbelievable tone also and unlike cotton, does not wear.I guess
> this is what was used prior to cotton being available in Europe pre 1500.
>
> Regards,
>
> Steve Evans
I never heard of anyone doing it like this, especially with all the strings
on the wheel while applying alcohol. However, during the concert by Pascal
Lefeuvre (my HG hero) in St Chartier, I twice saw him put something that
looked liquid on the wheel of his Mousnier vielle (wood wheel I think)
with the strings on the wheel. When I went back stage to find him after the
concert he was gone already so I didn't get the chance to ask him about his
technique. Anyone know?
Theo
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Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 01:46:43 EDT
From: Hergert1 _at_ aol.com
Subject: [HG] Hello to the List
I am a new member of the list. I became aware of the hurdy gurdy as a
serious instrument over the last few years and often thought of building one.
Now I have started my project. I want to learn more about the insturment
and its music. I am strictly an amateur builder but I have gotten good
results with several guitars and mountain dulcimers. I have gotten to the
point of designing and building my own dulcitars ( a borrowed word). So I
thought I would jump right into a very detailed and challenging project to
create a hurdy gurdy.
My project is based on several projects I have read on the internet. I
really ought to have started with the $20 hurdy gurdy just to see how it
works but when I saw the project to convert a guitar I had to get started. I
wanted more keys on my instrument and now the design includes two rows. I
will craft my own body based on the pictures I see in several different
projects. This is a challenge. My completed project will be the only hurdy
gurdy I have ever held in my hands or heard in person.
A personal note...I am a computer person by profession. I currently run a
Quality Assurance department for a networking equipment company. I am also a
ham radio operator. I like to tinker with the technology of things. I'm
looking forward to hearing about other projects.
Dennis
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Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 10:55:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: [HG] Welcome, Dennis + the Unknown Gurdy.
Hey Dennis, Welcome to the list.
There are several of us that build, have tried very hard, or at least
fantasize about building their own vielle. I made my first based on one
of the Dewit books with a lot of good advice from several list members.
(This was mostly before there was a list, but I digress.) I had the
thing finished except tangents (and some cosmetics: still pending) when
I showed up at the Over-the-Water Festival. Like you I had never
actually seen or held one, or heard it much except for a few stray
recordings, so when I got in contact with the "Real Deal" I noticed
about 150 things I needed to change or at least wished I'd done
differently.
After playing it for a couple of years I have learned even more.
While I still like the drama and romanticism of building the first one
you've ever seen or held, the reality is that you need the exposure to
build a really good one. (Anyone with counter-evidence is welcome to
chip in.)
Check out http://www.overthewater.org/festival.html and try to get
there for part of it if you possibly can. (I'm in the back row with my
Dewit, Black T-shirt. I only look impatient because I'm waiting to
resume playing.)
Get in touch with me off list if you're planning to be in the general
vicinity of Ft. Worth, Tx and we can set up a meeting. Or give us a
clue where you live, there may be somebody local that can give you a
demo.
Anyway, I wish you all the best, and pipe up if you have any questions.
Roy Trotter, Hurdy-Gurdy junkie, Springtown Tx.
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Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 21:17:38 +0100
From: george.swallow <george.swallow _at_ beechcottage98.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [HG] dewit hurdy-gurdy plans
In Dutch and English yes, but the German version is still listed on
www.amazon.de
the hg drawings have several silent traps in them even if you can read the
text so they are not a beginner's job
----- Original Message -----
From: "JulieR" <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Sent: 21 July 2002 22:40
Subject: RE: [HG] dewit hurdy-gurdy plans
> By the way... is "Making and Playing Musical Instruments" by Dewit still
out
> of print?
>
> --JulieR
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Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 23:07:38 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] hurdy gurdy article in "Mugwumps"?
I've seen this item come up several times, and have wondered about it also.
Anyone?
>Can anybody comment on the Mugwumps article from the 1974, volume 3 #2,
>about building a hurdy gurdy? I've come across the magazine a couple of
>times in auctions (there's one right now at Elderly Instruments
>(http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/464-2.htm) recently, but haven't seen
>it in person yet.
>
>--JulieR
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Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 01:19:02 -0700
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] hurdy gurdy article in "Mugwumps"?
I have someone who is sending me a copy of the article this week, Alden -
I'll get one for you when it arrives.
--JulieR
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Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 01:25:42 -0700
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: [HG] Raymond of Watford HG
Found this, this evening...
http://www.users.waitrose.com/~ratter/html/hurdy_gurdy.html
"I have always wanted a Hurdy Gurdy, but it has taken me a long while to
gather enough information about how it works and it is only recently that I
have had the confidence to build. This instrument comprises only three
strings of which just one carries the tune (chanterelle) while the other two
provide supporting drones. The eight keys are tuned pentatonically so that
its performance is reminiscent of both the bagpipes and the appalachian
dulcimer. Featured in Practical Woodworking Magazine."
"Raymond of Watford is a luthier and writer working in the UK town of
Watford (Hertfordshire). Products are mostly European folk instruments
constructed largely from recycled materials using traditional hand tools and
techniques."
I find the look of the HG he built to be appealing. Obviously, I have no
idea what the sound quality is like, but I like the way it looks. :)
--JulieR
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Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 10:08:20 +0100
From: george.swallow <george.swallow _at_ beechcottage98.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [HG] Raymond of Watford HG
This hg was discussed here a couple of years ago with little enthusiasm,
although the maker told me it sounded excellent. Not for the serious hg
specialists, and to be fair to the maker, he did acknowledge that he had
been unaware that there were any.
George Swallow
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Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 06:05:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Smith <dtsmithnet _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] hurdy gurdy article in "Mugwumps"?
Hi,
Several years ago I purchased the Mugwumps issue which
talks about constructing a Hurdy Gurdy. The magazine
is very small and devotes about 4 pages to
constructing a very simple and crude diatonic
instrument with no trompette. It is accompanied with
a hand drawn sketch and very simple instructions. I
would not get excited about purchasing the magazine,
as there is hardly anything there.
Keep cranking,
David Smith
Dearborn, Michigan, USA
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Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 07:27:08 -0700
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] Raymond of Watford HG
It just looks so cute. :) *chuckle*
--JulieR
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Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 07:27:18 -0700
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] hurdy gurdy article in "Mugwumps"?
Ah well - at least we can add it to the list of "HG stuff we know about".
Thanks!
--JulieR
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Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 15:09:35 -0400
From: Hergert1 _at_ aol.com
Subject: [HG] Advice on building welcome...
Roy, Thanks very much for your advice. I will search out some CD/cassette
music with vielle's and try to find a local player. I am located in San Diego, CA.
I'd love to meet someone here who builds for fun or $$. Even though it will
obviously take some time to complete the vielle, I have promised myself not to
start any other projects until I have my HG done, better or worse. I hope it
is not the last one I build...
Dennis Hergert, San Diego, CA.
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Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 14:29:51 -0700
From: SB/JW <duodrone _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Advice on building welcome...
Hi Dennis, welcome to the list. I live not too far away from you, I
play hurdy gurdy and am an occasional builder. There are a few of us
hidden away here in Southern California. You are welcome to contact
me off-list if you'd like to get together. No $$, just fun.
Juan, Inglewood, CA
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Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 14:39:37 +0000
From: Martijn Dekker <martijn_dekker _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: [HG] Some advice "a Siorat or a Gotschy"
Hello,
I want to buy a hg for a long time now. I think now im ready to take this
step but i don't know yet which one to take. I want a hg that can play
acuistic and electric(also with distortion). I have 2 choices, a Siorat, or
an Gotschy(the alfa novello www.gotschy.com)
I really like the sound of Pierre Imbert,(rest in piece dear Pierre)on the
ad vielle que pourra cd "Menage a quatre".
Does someone knows this cd and can give some advice on the sound heart on
it.(can siorat or gotschy vielles produce this kind of sound) Specialy the
following 3 tracks:
2.Les Bois Noirs
9. Petit Solo Du Matin (the most beautifull amplified hg sound
i have ever heart)
12. Le Cultivateur (hg with distortion)
Samples for the 3 songs(slow server sometimes):
http://www.bcrich.i-p.com/hgfiles/track2.mp3
http://www.bcrich.i-p.com/hgfiles/track9.mp3
http://www.bcrich.i-p.com/hgfiles/track12.mp3
Hope to hear from you soon,
Martijn
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Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 09:32:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] Some advice "a Siorat or a Gotschy"
I can't comment on Gotschy's instruments - I haven't played one.
If you want to play both acoustic and electric, I would not recommend a
Siorat. His electroacoustics can sound very nice (especially if you
happen to be Gilles Chabenat) but electro-acoustic is a bit of a misnomer:
you basically can't play it without being plugged in. The acoustic
trompette sound in particular is very weak.
There are some other options:
We (Olympic Musical Instruments) make electro-acoustic instruments, and
our focus is on producing a hurdy-gurdy that sounds equally good in both
situations.
Weichselbaumer also makes E-A HG's. We played some at St. Chartier a few
years ago. Cali and I had differing opinions on the amplified sound, but
we both agreed that we liked the acoustic sound.
And finally, if you like the Imbert sound, why not go to the Imbert
source? Jean-Luc Bleton is still building vielles.
Alden F.M. Hackmann darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu
Web: http://www.hurdygurdy.com/hg/hghome.html
"Beati illi qui in circulum circumeunt, fient enim magnae rotae."
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Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 16:59:48 +0000
From: Martijn Dekker <martijn_dekker _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Some advice "a Siorat or a Gotschy"
Hello,
I thought of that. Does anyone have the email-address of "Jean-Luc
Bleton".(if he has one)
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Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 14:54:08 EDT
From: Maxoubbn _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] Some advice "a Siorat or a Gotschy"
Hi !
here it is :
Jean-Luc BLETON
Trembas
F 38670 CHASSE SUR RHONE
(0).478.73 .90.96
I'm afraid he has no web page.
J.F. "Maxou" HEINTZEN
Le bourg - 03360 VALIGNY
Tel : 04.70.66.60.01 / 06.87.43.63.65
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Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 09:12:13 -1000
From: Don Lax <donvlax _at_ maui.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Some advice "a Siorat or a Gotschy"
I have A Gotschy electro-acoustic and it ROCKS both acoustically and
plugged in.
Don
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Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 19:22:08 +0000
From: Martijn Dekker <martijn_dekker _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Some advice "a Siorat or a Gotschy"
Hi,
Thanks for your reply, however i have his phone and address. I'm looking for
an email-address(if he has one). Since i have a lot of questions and i can't
speak a word of French, this is the only way for me.
Greetings,
Martijn
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Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 15:50:39 -0500
From: "Smishkewych, Wolodymyr" <wjsmishk _at_ indiana.edu>
Subject: RE: [HG] "Hurdy Gurdy, Provincial, 11-Note, 27 inch" ??
Hello all-
I can second the confirmation that it is a Lira, as the shape and most of all,
the high, scrolled tailpiece attest to. i wish i could offer suggestions about
the keys...pretty intriguing. i wonder if it was made by someone with limited
knowledge of the math behind string interval distances, to be given to a
musician to tune? perhaps by using tangents of varied 'flag' lengths, tuning
could be acheived for most of the scales needed. another idea that occurs to
me is that the failry regular spacing of keys could give a compromise distancing
between keys, leaving the flags to be within a reachable length for almost any
of the notes needed for most of the scales used by the lirnyki. since the tunes
often had near pentatonic and hexachordal structures, sometimes notes would be
skipped in the scales, but another area of the 'scale' would alternate usage
between notes a half step apart. EG: an a minor scale, really a transposed
Dorian with a 6th that would be either Maj or Min, so on!
e tangent F, another F#, but perhaps the lower end would omit the 2nd (B)
of the scale. so tuned A C D E Fnat F# G A....maybe?
just conjectures. it make sme want to spend a little bit of time with the
Valentyn Moroz thesis, to see if anything about this is mentioned, tho i could
check in Kononenko's Ukrainian Minstrels book.
cheers,
Vlad
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Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 16:51:26 EDT
From: DISKJAKEY _at_ aol.com
Subject: [HG] Looking for hurdy gurdy meeting in east coast
Due to lack of finances and work logistics, I cannot attend the Over the
Water Festival this year. I would love to get started with my new hurdy
gurdy and would like to know if there are any meetings planned in eastern
U.S.A. (I'm in New Jersey). I remember reading of a meeting in New
England and would love to learn from and meet other hurdy gurdy players.
Jake Conte -- the enthusiastic novice
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Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 09:35:09 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] For Sale sighting.....
Hello,
"Asier B.G." wrote:
>
> Good piece but, why two keys in the tailpiece if it only have one single
> trompette????
The 'upper' one is wired with the bridge to adjust its position.
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 14:16:27 +0200
From: Béatrice Richrath <beatrice.richrath _at_ gmx.de>
Subject: [HG] Belt for baroque hurdy-gurdy
Hello, friends,
coming back from the hurdy-gurdy building course in the castle of
Rapottenstein, Austria, where
Ernest and me constructed 2 baroque hurdy-gurdies under the guidance of
Nupi Jenner we
are now searching for the right belts (Rococco style).
Is anybody able to help us and provide us with information where we could
get them? Henry Boucher
instructed us some weeks ago that they should not be made from leather
but until now we don´t have
any idea how they should look and where to buy.
Thanks a lot!
Béatrice
(Vienna, Austria)
P.S.: We will publish our photo documentation about the hg-construction
in this list as soon as possible.
Some of you will surely be curious...
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Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 08:10:50 -0700
From: Joan D'Andrea <jeepstr42 _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Attending Festival
Hi Roy. Thought I would drop you a line. Pat and I won't be at the
festival this year. Pat has had a lot of students drop and I have had
unexpected dental expenses so even with their generous offer of a
scholarship we could split we can't afford to go. We thought we would
work really hard on our HG licks and start saving this year for next
year. Sorry I will miss you and all the others. The people at the
festival are what I go for more than anything else. Most are so nice.
We are going to go out to the bech and play up a storm that week
instead. We have an undeveloped camping lot at Long Beach. Take care
and keep in touch. Joan
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 08:17:34 -0700
From: Joan D'Andrea <jeepstr42 _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Advice on building welcome...
HiDennis. Welcome to the list and to the valiant process of creating
your own HG. I have been working on a Bosch for two years and the going
is slow. Roy is right. Get to the festival if you can and if not, find
someone local who plays the beastie so you can see it work. Who knows,
you may have a local luthier who had tried making one at one time or
another. Also assess the type of tools you have on hand. I think Alden
has a list of what is needed somewhere on the Over the Water site. There
is/are several sites on line where various neophite builders and builders
with considerable experience have posted their advise, pictures of the
process and so forth. Just type in Hurdy Gurdy for a Google search and a
list of them will come up. Good luck. Joan
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 08:46:28 -0700
From: Joan D'Andrea <jeepstr42 _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Attending Festival
OOOPPS. Accidentally posted a message to the whole list that should have
been to Roy. Sorry. I want to say hello and sorry to miss everybody I
know and all the new people I would get to meet this year at the
festival. Pat and I will be thinking about you, about that delicious
food, about the wonderful instruction, the drop dead wonderful concerts,
the beautiful scenery, the grumpy people in the dorm [emcrook.gif]
(Pat's alway having to remind me to not be too noisy in the bathroom),
the delights of the Hot Tub, sharing vino fino and chocolate, picking
Alden's mind for ideas, chatting after dinner, lunch and breakfast,
[emsmiled.gif] and the general fun of being at HG camp Ft. Flagler with
all of you. If there is anyone on the list who has been thinking about
going and hasn't decided, you need to know that ! this festival is by far
the best and is a great experience. Even if you are a beginner there is
great instruction for you. It has been really neat getting to know most
of you over the last four years. Rats. Now I will have to start my
revolutions on the ID pin all over. Pat and I will be playing up a
storm, not really I hope, [emsmilep.gif] at the beach and will think of
you guys grinding away on new tunes and trying out new licks. So here
is a salute to everyone who will be there [emcocktl.gif] . Be sure to
bid high on every single item in the auction [emgift.gif] and I hope
somebody takes lots of pictures and posts them on the internet so I can
vicariously enjoy the festival. For those of you who just tune in to
this list once in a wh! ile, please excuse this personal message, but it
is the only way I can think to say hello and I will miss you all to the
Festival group. I post very little and promise to not post personal
messages again.
Love to you all, Joan
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 09:15:38 -0700
From: Joan D'Andrea <jeepstr42 _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: [HG] Hurdy Gurdy for sale
Hi. I recently met a musician who no longer tours. His main Ax is not
the Hurdy Gurdy and he is selling his HG. I have not seen the
instrument, but he says it is in good condition. He paid $2000 and is
willing to take a reasonable price for the instrument. For the life of
me I can't remember the maker of the instrument, but his other
instruments are very nice and I am confident his HG is at least good if
not better. You will have to talk to him about it. His name is Ivan
Stiles. He is a professional Autoharp player and lives in Pennsylvania.
You can reach him at pickeringbend _at_ worldlynx.net Joan
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 09:58:49 -0700
From: Joan D'Andrea <jeepstr42 _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Belt for baroque hurdy-gurdy
Hi Beatrice. I am very curious about your post. Can you be more
specific as to what kind of belt this is and why it should not be made of
leather? How does the belt fit on the player and the HG?
I recently saw two versions of a harness type belt I find interesting.
It is made of webbing material, ie. the belt material used in the less
expensive guitar straps. One version has two straps that cross in the
back through a leather square about 4 x 4". This cross fits comfortably
between the shoulder blades. The square can be made of any stiff
material. The straps are simply fed through the slits in the square of
leather and the square itself as well as the straps move freely. Each
strap has a shorten/lengthen slide on it like on a guitar strap. The
ends of the two crisscrossed straps meet in front in a comman plastic
fitting. At the end of the two fittings is a button tab that hooks to
the two buttons on the instrument. The second version is exactly the
same with the modification of a waist strap that gives added support and
security to the instrument. This strap was constructed by the woman w!
ho uses it. She simply glued cut a square from stiff cow hide, cut the
slsits for the straps in the sides of the square, fed the two inexpensive
guitar straps through the slits and glued the putton tabs of the two
separate guitar.straps together where they met. She attached to each
of the glued together guitar straps a lighter weight leather strap about
6" long by one inch in width and cut button holes in each for the
instument buttons. The light weight of these leather pieces makes it
easier to snap them over the instrument buttons. It is easy to adjust
the length of the two straps to fit the individual size of the musician.
However, it is a good idea to buy the original guitar straps in shosrt,
medium or long with the size of the destined player in mind. The crossed
straps in the back make it possible to adjust the instrument comfortably
across the shoulders and shoulder blades. I was very pleas! ed with the
way the instrument rides, a little higher than the normal HG location.
This moves the instrument up closer to the normal center of gravity of a
human being and makes it easier to support when standing. In the version
that has a waist belt the woman who made it attached a comfortable light
weight waist belt that buckles in the front to the slider strap itself.
I didn't look closely at how she did this. She said the added dimension
of being able to carry the weight of the instrument on her hips rather
than from her shoulders is very nice. I think the belt section is
probably essential for the HG as it is played lowere than many
instruments and you need the room for turning the wheel, but I am
confident that a little adjustment will make it work. The slider itself
makes the instrument secure against the body. I am sort of a jerky
person on the coup at this stage of my playing and think it will help ke!
ep my instrument steady against my body.
It is easy to make this slider strap. I plan to make one this week and
will let you know about my progress if you like. Perhaps you can do the
same for your strap. I plan to use two inexpensive guitar straps, a
little ingenuity and a square from an old Coach hand bag I have that was
ruined by a puppy. I am going to adapt it for use with my HG as I am
frustrated with continually taking the instrument off or leaning over
when I move with the HG. I think this "Slider Strap" as it is called,
will do the job nicely. I believe the "Slider Strap" is sold
commertially under that name. Maybe you can find it on the Elderly Music
site on line and see an example of it. Good luck.
PS. If anyone else read this post and has ideas or contributions from
their efforts at creating the perfect HG strap, please let lme know.
Joan
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 10:21:21 -0700
From: Joan D'Andrea <jeepstr42 _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] St. Chartier
Hi Mark. Your post was enjoyable. You said
We had been looking forward to "Festinamus" - a medieval band playing in
the church. The music was good, and it was well attended and, as ever,
became very hot. For my tastes, Floreal Navarro's semi-sung narrative
was just a bit contrived (Anyone remember the recording of Ordo Virtutum
by Sequentia ? It was of a similar style.) Nevertheless, I filled a
minidisk with this, and enjoyable it still is.
Any chance you can post an MP3 or MIDI file for our listening pleasure?
Joan
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 13:37:52 -0400
From: Judith Lindenau <judith _at_ taar.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] Hurdy Gurdy for sale
Around here, folks know Ivan: he is a well respected autoharp player.
I've
forgotten what kind of gurdy he has, though I think he's told me. He's
a good musician, a nice guy.
judith
Judith Lindenau, CAE, RCE
Executive Vice President
Traverse Area Association of Realtors
www.taar.com
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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 21:34:19 +0200
From: Béatrice Richrath <beatrice.richrath _at_ gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [HG] Belt for baroque hurdy-gurdy
Hello, Joan,
I think you misunderstood my question. I do not speak HOW to wear the
belt but I am looking for a belt which
design and material fits for an 18th century hurdy-gurdy.
We will wear that belt quite normal - one side at the button for back
strap and the other side winded around
the pegbox/ the figurehead.
Of course I am also very curious what Marcello will reply.
Béatrice
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 12:35:21 -0700
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [HG] Belt for baroque hurdy-gurdy
" Henry Boucher INSTRUCTED us .... that they should not be made
of leather ...."
I would not dare to give instruction to anybody , I merely mentionned
the fact that contrary to popular belief , the " higher " classes of the
XVIII th
cent considered leather as fit for horses and soldier's equipment ,
Just take a look at old paintings , very little leather to be seen , if
they
are rich enough , even the shoes are made of textile matérial .
Now, I never seen a painting showing a HG player from the back <g>.
The closest thing is a few seconds in the film " Napoléon " by Abel
Gance , made in the early 1930 , in the film there is a HG player
( in the film the role was played by George Simon ( 1902-1986)*
wich is funny since it is a silent movie , but very interesting for us )
When seen from the back , the belt looks like pleated silk
( sash ? , cumerbund ? ) and is very wide .
..... Marcello !... where are you ?.......
Henry
* info from the CD " La vielle en France " 1994 Silex Mémoire
sound archives of famous french HG players .1930-1991
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 12:53:55 -0700
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [HG] Looking for hurdy gurdy meeting in east coast
This time of the year , HG from the north east are thinking about
the Northumbrian small pipes gathering , not a HG event but
pipes and HGs seems to go well together .
http://www.pipersgathering.org/Gallery/Gallery.htm
http://www.pipersgathering.org/index/index.htm
Now , since this year event will be in a new location , I do not know
where the informal gathering will take place , just look for people
with instrument cases to big for a small pipe <g>.
Henry
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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 13:35:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Smith <dtsmithnet _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] Hurdy Gurdy for sale
Hi,
A few years ago I had the pleasure of hearing Ivan
Stiles at a small house concert in Ann Arbor,
Michigan. He is a really fantastic autoharp player
and he did play a hurdy gurdy on a couple of pieces.
He played a Kelischek 3 string diatonic instrument
with no trompette. He played the instrument flat on
his lap and the keyes were returned with a rubber band
which ran across the key tails! If this is the
instrument he is selling, it did sound and look nice
but it is rather simple.
David Smith
Dearborn, Michigan, USA
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 22:45:24 +0100
From: Mark J Hewitt <m.hewitt _at_ computer.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] St. Chartier
Joan D'Andrea wrote:
> Hi Mark. Your post was enjoyable. You said
>
> We had been looking forward to "Festinamus" - a medieval band playing
> in the church. The music was good, and it was well attended and, as
> ever, became very hot. For my tastes, Floreal Navarro's semi-sung
> narrative was just a bit contrived (Anyone remember the recording of
> Ordo Virtutum by Sequentia ? It was of a similar style.)
> Nevertheless, I filled a minidisk with this, and enjoyable it still is.
>
> Any chance you can post an MP3 or MIDI file for our listening pleasure?
>
Now that sounds like a fun project for my new minidisk recorder. It
would have to be an analogue
recording as I don't have MD in the HiFi (I still do the Vinyl thing,
and grudgingly embrace the
latter quarter of the 20th century with CDs!) and the portable recorder
has no digital output.
However, I will be going on vacation shortly, and setting up all the
connections to a sound card
on one of my PCs, and then finding some appropriate software will have
to wait until afterwards.
Any such post would be *huge* so I'll have to find a web site for it.
No point in inflicting the high
telephone charges on everyone!
I would also be interested in the legal and copyright situation here,
before I actually start publishing
this sort of material: It does sound very much like all those rock
bootlegs that one was supposed to
have beside the bed to prove street cred. when at university!
#!/mjh
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 08:59:43 +0200 (CEST)
From: marcello bono <lyra_mendicorum _at_ yahoo.it>
Subject: Re: [HG] Belt for baroque hurdy-gurdy
--- Béatrice_Richrath <beatrice.richrath _at_ gmx.de>
wrote:
> Of course I am also very curious what Marcello will
> reply.
Hi
"Unfortunately" I use a leather strap (and goggles,
and alloy bicycles and so on :-)
.....and what about shoes?!? :-)
=====
Marcello Bono
Bologna-Italy
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Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 17:39:36 +0200
From: RA-Szabo-Laszlo _at_ i-one.at
Subject: [HG] back again
Hallo, to those who dont know me (I was some month before member of the
list) Id like to introduce myself.
My name is László, I am playing (hungarian) hg (nyenyere) here in
Innsbruck Austria.
I am looking forward the discussions on hg.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 09:54:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Smith <dtsmithnet _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: [HG] Maxime Boireaud
Hi,
Since purchasing a Maxime Boireaud Hurdy Gurdy last
year I have been interested in finding information
about the builder. A recent search of the internet
has resulted in several recent photos taken at his
workshop in France. I have taken the photos and
enhanced and enlarged them so that I could see more of
the details of his instruments and his shop. If you
would like to see a slideshow of the photos, click on
the following link:
http://www.geocities.com/dtsmithnet/index.html
The origional website is a day trip taken by an
antique motorcar club. They somehow stopped off at
the workshop as a siteseeing adventure. Here is a
link to the origonal site:
http://www.plein-gaz.com/manif/2002/metiersantan/feuille.htm
The website is in French. Maxime's address is given
as "la Maison Do Ré Mi à Chassigny-sous-Dun".
I hope to write to Maxime soon to find out more about
my instrument and possibly find out when it was made
(it looks pretty old to me). And maybe, if he has
records he might be able to shed light on how the
instrument came to the USA.
Enjoy,
David Smith
Dearborn, Michigan, USA
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 12:29:55 -0700
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [HG] Belt for baroque hurdy-gurdy
Leather shoes for common people :
http://www.fugawee.com/Men's%20Colonial.htm
Henry
marcello bono a écrit :
> .....and what about shoes?!? :-)
>
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 12:54:23 -0700
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: [HG] Belts, shoes & bikes ...
Marcello, BTW , here is a picture of my favorite bike
the ' Royal " model ,http://www.herocycles.com/bikes/classic.htm
I hardly never use my ten speeds since I have it .
and the one I try to repair
:http://www.metroexporters.com/pages/hamilton/deliv.html
the best way to carry a HG on a bicycle .
Henry
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 09:12:14 -0700
From: Joan D'Andrea <jeepstr42 _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] Hurdy Gurdy, Kelischek, for sale
Hi Dave. Yes I think this is the instrument. Kelischeck sounds familiar.
I have never seen one. I will look for a web site where it can be seen? I
would be curious to hear from Alden and/or Cali as to how it compares to the
Ministrel since both are three string instruments. What is this rubberband
affair and how does it work? Thanks.
Joan
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 11:45:48 -0500
From: gjr <roehmguitars _at_ midtnn.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Hurdy Gurdy, Kelischek, for sale
"Joan D'Andrea wrote:
> Yes I think this is the instrument. Kelischeck sounds familiar.
> I have never seen one. I will look for a web site where it can be seen?
Kelischek's site:
http://www.susato.com/
The Minnesinger Hurdy-Gurdy:
http://www.susato.com/hurdygurdy.htm
> What is this rubberband affair and how does it work?
The rubber band is stretched behind the end of the keys. I would assume it
was added because the key/tangent assembly is so light, it was needed to
help return the keys without depending on gravity. I have played the
instrument and it sounds amazingly good, especially considering the molded
plastic parts. I would imagine Alden and Cali's Minstrel would sound at
least as good or better. Mr. Kelischek also offers plans and a kit for his
instrument. I have built one based more or less on his plan, but with wooden
keys/tangents and a PVC wheel rim:
http://roehmguitars.midtnn.net/gallery/gur1.html
Disclaimer: I have no connection with Mr. Kelischek except as a satisfied
customer.
Geoff Roehm
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 09:56:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dennis Sherman <dennis_sherman _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] Hurdy Gurdy, Kelischek, for sale
--- Joan D'Andrea <jeepstr42 _at_ hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Dave. Yes I think this is the instrument.
> Kelischeck sounds familiar.
> I have never seen one. I will look for a web site
> where it can be seen? I
http://www.susato.com
Although he's made some design changes in the last few
years, what you see there is probably close to the
instrument for sale.
> would be curious to hear from Alden and/or Cali as
> to how it compares to the
> Ministrel since both are three string instruments.
> What is this rubberband
> affair and how does it work? Thanks.
I've got one I built from kit in George Kelischek's
shop. I understand he isn't selling the kits any
longer. It's actually a symphony, box shaped, which
leads to the rubber bands...
The rubber band arrangement can be ignored entirely.
George's idea is that by putting something behind the
keys to force a return when you release them you could
play the instrument sitting flat on a table, instead
of having to tilt it slightly forward. I suppose it
works, but it also works for me just as well with the
rubber band removed. I tend to play either seated,
with it on my lap, or standing with a strap -- in both
cases, tilted slightly forward.
I can't offer comparison to the Minstrel, as I haven't
seen one of them in person yet. Anyone in or near
Chicago have one to show off? Or maybe I'll get a
field trip in to Traverse City, MI soon, to see the
one Judith has...
=====
--
Dennis Sherman Chicago, IL
dennis_sherman _at_ sherman-erickson.org
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 09:57:14 -0700
From: Joan D'Andrea <jeepstr42 _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: [HG] Re: Kelischeck for sale
Hi everyone. The Kelischeck Workshop site has a picture of the instrument
Ivan has for sale. Go to http://www.susato.com/ to see it. I am sure this
is the instrument as when Ivan and I were chatting about it he mentioned he
played it on his knees and it was "Old Style". Like everyone has said, Ivan
is a really nice guy. Listening to him play the autoharp was a treat. He
and a couple of other performers certainly taught me the lesson that like
the Hurdy Gurdy almost anyone can learn to play the autoharp and then there
are those who PLAY the autoharp or the Hurdy Gurdy. Ivan is a master player
who is very modest and always says he plays well because he has been playing
for 30 years. He refuses to call practice "practice" because he says that
indicates far too much work. He prefers to say Play. Good advice.
Joan
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 13:30:31 -0400
From: Judith Lindenau <judith _at_ taar.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] Hurdy Gurdy, Kelischek, for sale
Promises, promises.
judith
"Anyone in or near
Chicago have one to show off? Or maybe I'll get a
field trip in to Traverse City, MI soon, to see the
one Judith has...
=====
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 10:57:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Smith <dtsmithnet _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Re: Kelischeck for sale
Hi everyone,
The Kelishceck instrument I was refering to that Ivan
Stiles plays is not the Minnisinger (Symphony)model on
the Susato.com site. Kelischeck did produce other
models in the past, here is a 1999 photo of Ivan
Stiles playing his instrument:
http://www.geocities.com/jpkwvf/MoWv4/hurdy.html
I hope this clears up the confusion,
David Smith
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 11:34:5 -0700
From: Joanne Andrus <joaand _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: [HG] Hurdy Gurdy, Kelischek, for sale
I own a Minstrel and have had several opportunities to play Kelischek
symphonies belonging to friends, so I guess I am as qualified as anyone to
compare them. The Kelischeks sound reasonably good, and a real advantage
is their availability, but the plastic parts and miniscule handle and crank
give it more the feel of playing a toy than a Quality Musical Instrument
like the Minstrel.
If a Kelischek was what was available, you could have a lot of fun with it.
There is a lot more diatonic music out there than many people think. But -
when you finally moved on to something bigger and better you would have to
start from scratch on your right hand technique.
The Minstrel, on the other hand, has a full size crank and handle, and a
trompette string with dog, as well as being a chromatic instrument. With
it you can play everything right away.... well, with a little practice,
anyway.
Joanne
--- Joanne Andrus
--- joaand _at_ earthlink.net
--- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 19:18:41 -0400
From: Judith Lindenau <judith _at_ taar.com>
Subject: [HG] For Sale Sighting
Reichmann Hurdy Gurdy on e-bay: #898145344
Judith
Judith Lindenau, CAE, RCE
Executive Vice President
Traverse Area Association of Realtors
www.taar.com
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 23:49:31 EDT
From: Cruikshank44 _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] Hurdy Gurdy, Kelischek, for sale
I have a friend in Racine who has a Minstrel- I could contact him if you want
to see it.
Personally, I think the Minstrel is a far finer instrument than the
Kelischek's I've seen. But then I'm not a huge fan of plastic anything for
musical instruments. Though considering I was just talking with Cali and
Alden about making me a completely synthetic gurdy I guess I can't say that
anymore!
Felicia.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 21:40:12 -0700
From: SB/JW <duodrone _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: [HG] ebony filler
I am in the process of refurbishing a set of very worn out ebony
keys. They have 'dents' about 1 mm deep both on the sides and on the
tops were they have rubbed against the keybox holes.
I have finished all the sides by cutting out the worn parts and
inlaying new ebony insets. For the tops I was thinking of using some
kind of filler. I have experimented on a scrap piece of ebony with
Bondo (a car body filler), Miniwax high performance wood filler (a
two part filler) and Titebond II woodglue mixed with ebony sawdust.
None of these seem to set as hard as the ebony.
Has any of you tried something like this before and have you got
some recommendations on what works that you can pass on?
Juan
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 07:45:39 +0000
From: Asier B.G. <asierdbg _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] ebony filler
Hi, greetings from Spain...
Well, I've used Titebond (normal one, perhaps T 1?) with ebony sawdust
making a paste similar as before cooking bread or pizza (but black,
obviously) and it results very well. Sometimes, 'cos of evaporation, holes
filled becomes a bit "sunk", I mean, you fill the hole but when the paste is
dry its surface results concave. This is easily resolved just by sanding the
first application and applying a 2nd hand. For bigger holes (as marks in the
3,5,7,9,12 "trastes" of the guitar fingerboards) more hands could be needed.
Don't forget to re-sand with graduated grain sandpaper after every hand to
take it to the correct level.
Good look.
PD: excuse my primitive english.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 07:36:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] ebony filler
I use CA glue ("Superglue", but other brands offer more selection of
drying times as viscosities.) on Ebony and Rosewood fingerboards. Layer
and graduate as described above. This treatment is invisible on Ebony
and practically so on Rosewood, but accentuates the scar on lighter
woods.
Later, Roy
P.S. Pardon my splitting a hair, Asier, but I think we'd say "layer",
"coat" or "application" instead of "hand". Thought you'd want to
know...
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 10:15:01 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] ebony filler
Dear Juan,
I haven't filled keys in this way, but a better alternative would be a two
part casting resin. These are easily colored to match the ebony and they
dry very hard and a little bit brittle so that they would match the feel of
the ebony keys better than the other alternatives you have tried.
:-)----Cali
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Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 10:33:02 -0700
From: Joan D'Andrea <jeepstr42 _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] ebony filler
Hi Juan. I was involved with making jewlery for some time and it is common
to use ebony, bone, turquoise, or other grindings in the less expensive
rings and bracelets that feature inlays. Make sure it is very fine. I
bought ebony dust from TSI here in Seattle. I think they still sell the
powder, (VERY FINE is needed). I tossed out my catalogue but they are just
a mile or so away and I would be glad to check on the availability of
powders and bonding agents if you would like. I can not recall the bonding
material I used, epoxy I think, but can't swear by it, to create the inlay.
It may also have been an epoxy-like material and I stored it away in my
brain as epoxy. I inlayed bezels that were pretty good size for rings,
quarter inch and up, and since rings are knocking against things all the
time the bonding agent is VIP as anything else will scratch or chip. I had
good success. I suggest you take a look at any of the books that discuss
inlay. Let me know what you learn as I intend to inlay some powdered
turquoise I have on the keys of my Bosch should I "EVER" get to that stage
of the game.
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Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 10:49:35 -0700
From: Joan D'Andrea <jeepstr42 _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] ebony filler
Juan. One other thought. I used ebony dust mixed with Gorilla Glue to try
inlaying my hammer dulcimer hammers and was not happy. The paste was easy
to work with and took a while to set up, but the resulting inlay was not
hard enough to take a polish. It chipped away. I think this was caused by
a combination of the glue itself being relatively porous when dry by
comparison with products like super glue or epoxy and the grains of sawdust
are not small enough to really mix well with the glue. The combination
creates a finished product that will not sand smoothly or polish and chips.
How much do you have to fill? If it is an entire layer, you might consider
creating silver bezels for the keys. then fill the bezel with your
epoxy?/powdered ebony goop. If you do this, be sure to overfill the bezel as
the material with shrink as it dries. You can buy bezels pre made in various
sizes or fabricate your own if you are handy with silver solder and an iron.
I think the silver spot price runs a little over $4.50. If you are
interested in this rout the Silver Smith web site keeps an up to date
posting of the charge for silver at different suppliers. The web site is
http://www.silversmithing.com/ Good luckand let me know your progress.
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Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 19:28:04 +0100
From: Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] ebony filler
Ebony dust (very fine) and epoxy resin are the method used for re-tuning
Northumbrian small-pipes if the finger holes have to be adjusted (ie filling
existing holes and redrilling). Use a really good-quality, slow-setting
epoxy and make sure the proportions are exactly right. Having the 2 parts
wrong is the usual reason for it not setting hard. Clean and de-grease the
keys before applying and overfill and sand down after it has set (a couple
of days). In the UK the usual epoxy is "Araldite 2 part epoxy resin" but
any type should do but look for words like "can be drilled/sawn after
setting" on the box.
Further details of amounts of ebony dust and best epoxy etc should be
available from a pipe-maker (try E-mail: rosspipes _at_ aol.com ) - he retuned my
pipes and the ebony fill is as hard as anything and takes a good shine!
Colin Hill
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Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 13:05:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dennis Sherman <dennis_sherman _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] ebony filler
--- Joan D'Andrea <jeepstr42 _at_ hotmail.com> wrote:
> Juan. One other thought. I used ebony dust mixed
> with Gorilla Glue to try
I would not expect Gorilla Glue (polyurethane glue) to
work well for this application. I use it in
furniture, and clamped into a joint, it gives a
tremendously strong bond. But any glue that isn't
contained inside the joint foams up into a soft porous
residue that's quite easy to remove with chisel or
plane.
I haven't intentionally tried it as a binder for inlay
with a piece of waxed paper over the inlay area, but
it might work. Holding the glue under pressure as it
dries is important with polyurethane.
As previously mentioned, cyanoacrylate (CA or super
glue) or epoxy are probably the best choices for
binder, though.
=====
--
Dennis Sherman Chicago, IL
dennis_sherman _at_ sherman-erickson.org
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Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 17:01:56 -0700
From: SB/JW <duodrone _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] ebony filler
Thanks to all of you who replied with suggestions. I have a few more
options to experiment with now.
I have some polyurethane adhesive which I was using on a canoe. It
foams up but dries glass -hard.
I have tried a filling method whereby I fill in the depression on
the key with a superfluous amount of filler then turn it glued-face
down onto a flat surface covered in plastic (wide plastic packing
tape works well) I clamp the key down and after a while trim off the
excess filler that has oozed from the sides with a knife. When the
filler has cured, it comes off the plastic quite easily, leaving a
perfectly flat and shiny surface. Maybe this will work for
polyurethane.
I tried adding black aniline dye (in powder form) to some mixtures
and they did not set, ebony dust has no such problems but will only
turn opaque fillers grey.
Of the methods I have tried so far, Titebond II with ebony dust has
dried hardest and darkest but also slowest, it took a couple of days
to really set, and we are having a heatwave here. I will report on
further findings if they are of interest. Thanks again for your help.
Juan
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Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 21:34:01 -0400
From: Matthew Szostak <gurdy _at_ midcoast.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] ebony filler
I can't remember for the life of me where I read it, but I seem to recall
in some catalog or other that pre-tinted black CA glues (usually very
expensive) are useful because it's very difficult to tint some other types
of (CA?) adhesives. Does this sound familiar to anyone? Suppose it's just
a marketing ploy?
You probably know already, Juan, but if you experiment with epoxy, stay
away from the cheap 5-minute stuff in the metal tubes or the
"double-barrel" syringe dispensers. This stuff is notoriously short-lived,
and it often doesn't harden completely.
~ Matt
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew Szostak - Hurdy-Gurdies
7 Grove Street
Camden, Maine 04843
phone: 207-236-9576
email: gurdy _at_ midcoast.com
website: http://www.midcoast.com/~beechhil/vielle
--------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 22:33:55 -0400
From: Beverly Woods <tradmusic _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] ebony filler
Now that you mention it, it seems to me that black CA is frequently used for
just this kind of purpose in the music store where I teach. I'm there on
Thursdays, so if anyone wants detailed insight on that question, I could get
it for you in a few days.
Beverly
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Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 21:39:02 -0500
From: gjr <roehmguitars _at_ midtnn.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] ebony filler
> in some catalog or other that pre-tinted black CA glues
Try:
http://www.stewmac.com/
Geoff
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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 05:58:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dennis Sherman <dennis_sherman _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: [HG] wheel construction
Felicia and I have been having a side conversation
that might be of general interest.
The topic is wheel construction -- what materials have
you used or seen, and what do you think of them? What
do you like or dislike about each, and why?
Plywood, solid wood, MDF, MDF wrapped with veneer,
plastic, etc? Are there new materials or methods out
there that haven't been discussed before?
Sitting back and waiting for thoughts and opinions...
=====
--
Dennis Sherman Chicago, IL
dennis_sherman _at_ sherman-erickson.org
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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 09:46:00 -0500
From: Theo Bick <tbick _at_ austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] ebony filler
Matthew,
Yes the black CA glue is extra strong. I use it where extra strength is
needed in model airplane construction like on a firewall. You can put it on
thick. But I don't know if it will be brittle enough for you or how it will
sand on the ebony. It's the strongest glue I know about and could be worth a
try. Just visit a model airplane store.
Theo
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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 14:41:21 -0500
From: Theo Bick <tbick _at_ austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] wheel construction
Hello,
Wolfgang's HG uses a synthetic wheel but I don't know exactly what it is,
it's probably a secret. It works very well and gives you a good dynamic
range. It plays softly when turned slowly, and the note will sound clearly
even when the wheel is turned very very slowly, like 7 seconds for one
revolution. Of course there may be other factors that allow this to happen,
I don't know. It also plays quite loudly when turned faster. And it is, and
probably always will be perfectly true. It also looks nice.
My first HG had a solid wheel, not good. Then I got two with laminated,
banded wheels and one went out of true in a few years and the other stayed
true for 16 years. I don't know the material. All three replacement wheels
that Alden and Cali made for me were laminated and banded and have stayed
true until now.
Regards,
Theo
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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 22:46:58 +0000
From: Asier B.G. <asierdbg _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] wheel construction
Well, I always make plywood wheels composed by about 15 plys (¿), 1 mm each
one. Afriend of mine (my master), Jesus Reolid (please, see www.zanfona.com
), he uses about 30 plys, 0'5 mm each one and after that he works both sides
of the wheel in the turning machine.
Solid wood wheels are worst because solid wood is very sensitive with
climate and humidity changes and they all become "bent", so if you can see
the importance of the wheel to be always at the same distance to bridge, you
can understand this.
Asier
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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 22:09:16 -0400
From: Matthew Szostak <gurdy _at_ midcoast.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] ebony filler
Luthier's Mercantile International has black "superglue" in two different
viscosities - "penetrating" (which probably means "thin;" not appropriate
for filling keys) in a 1.0 ounce bottle (about 30 grams, I guess), or
"gap-filling" (thicker than the former) in a 0.7 ounce (20 gram) tube.
Stew-Mac has it in one viscosity only - a "gap-filling" 0.7 ounce (20 gram)
tube.
Stew-Mac's small tube costs about $6. LMI's small tube costs about
$28. What's up with that?!? Neither catalog mentions anything about
problems tinting normally clear CA glues.
I've never worked with Cali's idea of casting resin, but it sounds promising.
Juan, is there a reason that you filled the sides with ebony bits, but you
don't want to fill the key tops the same way?
~ Matt
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Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 04:25:10 -0700
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] wheel construction
> From: owner-hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com [mailto:owner-hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com]On Behalf
> Of Asier B.G.
>
> Well, I always make plywood wheels composed by about 15 plys (¿),
> 1 mm each
> one. Afriend of mine (my master), Jesus Reolid (please, see
> www.zanfona.com
The one of his at http://ret007ei.eresmas.net/reolid/images/zanfjulio.jpg is
the first new HG I've seen that looks somewhat like what my old one
(http://www.julesong.com/pics/jhurdytable.jpg) might've looked when it was
new. Sorta. Kinda.
--JulieR
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Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 09:02:53 -0700
From: SB/JW <duodrone _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] ebony filler
Acting on Theo's tip I went to my local model making shop and
inquired about black CA glues. They had only heard of one but it was
intended for use on tires and therefore 'vulcanised' so it would set
rubbery. However they had a good array of different viscocities,
apart from 'gap-filling' they had 'extra thick' which they
recomended for my purposes and I ended up buying. ($3.30 for 1/2oz)
So far mixing sawdust with glue , either Titebond or CA, has offered
the best results, rock hard and almost undetectable. But, as some of
you have pointed out, it has to be done in layers, as unlike the
epoxies, they dry by contact with air and if you do it in one go the
center will be soft an will eventually depress.
I thought of casting resin, which I have used before, but thought it
may be too heavy and glossy, and I am not so sure that it would bond
to wood that is constantly being knocked about all that well.
The keys in question are about 120 years old, they are the type that
are wider at the front ( 15mm on average) an taper to 10 mm at the
back. The dents are uneven, getting deeper towards the edges, I
thought that chiseling out a deep enough trough for a new inlay would
probably leave me with a weak point, though I may be wrong about
that. I thought filler would be by far a simpler way to get a good
result to the problem.
Finally I'd like to acknowledge all the listmembers. It is great to
find that when you have a problem you think nobody will be able to
help you with, you write to the list and suddenly you have more
information than you can wave a stick at. Fantastic!
Juan
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Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:13:48 +0000
From: Martijn Dekker <martijn_dekker _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: [HG] Question about wheel position
Hello,
I have a question. I have started building a hurdy-gurdy(my first). The
measure (bridge to bridge)is 343mm. Is there a ideal distance for the wheel
to be on? If there is how do you calculate this?
Thanks in advance,
Martijn
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Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 15:56:55 -0500
From: "Smishkewych, Wolodymyr" <wjsmishk _at_ indiana.edu>
Subject: RE: [HG] wheel construction
Saludos desde Bloomington, Indiana, EEUU!
Vi en tu email que estudias(tes) con Jesus Reolid...me interesaria preguntarte
algunas cosillas, ya que tenemos planes mi familia y yo de mudarnos a Esp.
dentro de un año o asi. una de las cosas que me interesaba seria tomar
clases de Jesus en luteria de la zanfona--¿que me podrias contar acerca
de esto? (yo he tenido correspondencia con Rafa Martin, y le he mandado
unos e-correos a Jesus, pero debe ser que se encuentra muy ocupado porque
no ha podido responderme.)
te agradezco cualquier ayuda al respeto, y hasta la proxima, te manda un
atento saludo
Wolodymyr ("Bloyu" a los hispanohablantes) Smishkewych
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Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 16:12:48 -0500
From: "Smishkewych, Wolodymyr" <wjsmishk _at_ indiana.edu>
Subject: RE: [HG] wheel construction SORRY
Sorry folks--that message in Spanish was meant for Asier--OOPS! i forgot
to double check the "to" field before sending...
cheers,
Vlad
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Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 21:44:55 +0000
From: Asier B.G. <asierdbg _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] wheel construction
Hello, Julie.
What about any label from its procedence, country?
Where did you get it?
Are you going to restore it?
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Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 21:50:16 +0000
From: Asier B.G. <asierdbg _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: [HG] Black power.
There's another way to make every wood or paste turns black. You must apply
one coat of Aniline Chlorure and, when it dryes, then apply a second coat
but with Cromic Acid. Depending on the amount of acid, you can get deeper
black tones. Wood isn't affected nor damaged by the use of these products.
Take care.
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Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 21:57:05 +0000
From: Asier B.G. <asierdbg _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Question about wheel position
I first put the wheel with the axis and let all in its position. After that,
I put the top (only with hidden screws, not glued yet), and I let a space of
18 mm between the bridge and the wheel. Note that you can make this distance
bigger just by making tension on the wire that holds bridge with the
tailpiece. If this distance is bigger, sound is weak, and the 2nd octave
normally goes out of tuning. If the distance is smallest, sound is too hard
and it's easy to make horrible noises (more noises than a normal HG, I mean,
ha, ha, ha...).
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Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:33:21 -0500
From: arle lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] Question about wheel position
There was a thread on this topic a few weeks ago. (Does anyone
archive the list in a publicly-available format?) I'll forward you
the mails I still have on the topic.
The short answer is that there is no way to calculate the "ideal"
distance without knowing a lot more about your instrument, and even
then it would depend on personal preference and what sort of sound
you want. Your best bet would be to look at instruments that you like
and that are somewhat like your instrument and see what they do.
The problem is that no one position is ideal across the scale length.
On a guitar or nyckelharpa (just about any string instrument but a
HG) this distance is constantly being adjusted (generally without the
player even thinking about it...). With a HG you're stuck with one
position so you shoot for a happy medium and realize that no matter
what you do it won't work perfectly for every note.
Beyond that though, look through the mails I'll send you and see if
you can make sense of them to try to figure things out.
-Arle
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 09:52:53 -0400
From: Matthew Szostak <gurdy _at_ midcoast.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] ebony filler
Another possibility (just what you need!) I found in a Woodcraft
(www.woodcraft.com) "sale flyer":
"Carver's Epoxy Putty - $9.99 --- This two-part epoxy putty can be used
as an adhesive, a non-shrinking filler for natural defects or rebuilding
errant cuts. You can sand, carve, paint, etch or even burn this versatile
material. 2 oz. containers of putty resin and hardener provide 4 oz. of
material."
I don't have a clue if this would set hard enough for your keys, Juan (the
word epoxy certainly implies this, but we all know about the epoxies which
DON'T set hard!), but it probably wouldn't set glossy. It's shown in use
(mounting a duck decoy head to the body!) as an almost white putty-like
material. It probably could be tinted.
~ Matt
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 09:20:08 -0700
From: SB/JW <duodrone _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] wheel construction
Asier, when you talk about plys, do you mean sheets of veneer? If so,
any particular wood, and do you glue them together with the grain at
90 degrees to each other or at variable angles? With such fine plys,
is there a need to cover the rim of the wheel with a band at all?
Juan
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 10:00:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dennis Sherman <dennis_sherman _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] wheel construction
And do you cut the veneer yourself, or purchase it?
If you cut it yourself, how? I have a difficulty
cutting veneer smaller than about 2mm with any
accuracy, using a band saw.
=====
--
Dennis Sherman Chicago, IL
dennis_sherman _at_ sherman-erickson.org
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:04:31 -0700
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: [HG] Ivan Stiles' HG for sale
There is more information and pics of Ivan's HG here:
http://www.julesong.com/misc/hgswap/hgswap.htm
--JulieR
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:18:45 -0700
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: [HG] old HG
There's no label I've been able to find anywhere on the HG. I've shined a
light inside and the only thing to be seen are aeed to get myself a newer, playable one.
;)
--JulieR
> From: owner-hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com [mailto:owner-hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com]On Behalf
> Of Asier B.G.
>
> Hello, Julie.
> What about any label from its procedence, country?
> Where did you get it?
> Are you going to restore it?
http://www.julesong.com/pics/jhurdytable.jpg
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 21:08:02 +0000
From: Asier B.G. <asierdbg _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] wheel construction
Sorry, my english is not very good or I can't explain myself very well...
Of course, when I said "ply" I refered to sheets of fine wood. For a wheel
like mines (15 mm width), you can take 5 sheets of 3mm each one, or, for
example, 30 sheets of 0'5 mm each one. Jesus Reolid uses about 40 or 50
sheets and make a wheel of about 25 mm width, but after that, he works it
both sides in the turning bench, making a wheel that is 25mm width in the
center (axis), and 15mm in the rim zone. So, if you see the wheel from the
rim, it's simetrical.
Of course I use aleays a rim (made of sycamore or walnut, for example), but
you've to take care and glue it in the correct direction of the fibre. If
you glue it in the opposite direction (I did it once and it was
desperating), wood "hair" start to "rise" when rim touches the strings.
See you soon.
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 21:10:32 +0000
From: Asier B.G. <asierdbg _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] wheel construction
Sorry I forgot:
Yes, wooden sheets are glued 90 degrees one with the next one, and so on,
never tried with different angles, but I'm not going to try it 'cos 90
degrees way results very strong against "bending".
Thanxxx
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 21:17:38 +0000
From: Asier B.G. <asierdbg _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] wheel construction
First questoin is answered before.
Second one: I've never used a veneer (like the violins ones I supose), but I
know luthiers that use veneers and they buy it (making veneer is a job for
veneer-makers!!!!). You can find accesories (veneers included) at:
www.dick-gmbh.com (or .de, 'cos they are from germany). I They have lutherie
tools, accesories, and some book (I bought one about veneers!!!, but the
methodes to make them seem very complicated, specially for machines).
Asier.
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 21:38:20 +0000
From: Asier B.G. <asierdbg _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] old HG
Only 200!!!!!!! F***!!!!
It's incredible, as it seems, that woman haven't no f***ing idea about what
she was selling... (excuse my bad-words, but i think they're necessary).
Well, I'm going to send the photo to some friends (luthiers and players) in
order to determine the age and country. At simple view, I can say that it's
very similar with the Vandée model (a territorie in France), for the very
width wheel and of course for the shape. It's trompette bridge is in the
french or spanish way, not hungarian (note the hole in the center of the
tailpiece). I've seen some others from France with 4 strings too.
Just by looking to the position and organisation of the keys, you can
determine the tuning. I mean: for a G tuning, 4th and 5th keys must be
toguether, with no semitone between them, and for a D tuning, 2nd and 3rd
keys must go in the same way...
Work on it and get some books!!!!
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Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 00:04:45 +0200
From: Wells James WO TSgt 31CS/SCMFR <James.Wells _at_ AVIANO.AF.MIL>
Subject: RE: [HG] old HG
It's too bad your vocabulary is so limited that you cannot find more mature
words to describe your shock and amazement over the price of this hurdy
gurdy.
Jim Wells
Italy
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 18:09:35 -0400
From: Matthew Szostak <gurdy _at_ midcoast.com>
Subject: [HG] Beveled keybox slots
Hi list-
Juan, your discussion of worn key repair has me thinking about a key
vibration problem I'm having.
My question is: why are the key slots on the inside of the keybox beveled
(wood cut away so the key doesn't contact the full thickness of the keybox
side) of so many hurdy-gurdies I've seen?
The (three language) Destrem/Heidemann book suggests a remedy for excessive
key rattle: a tiny silicon "wedge" carefully placed on the top of the
offending key(s) and cut so that when the key is in its rest position it
forms a soft wedge in the beveled cut of the keybox, holding it "down" and
effectively damping the vibration.
This seems like it should work, although for how long is anybody's
guess. Also, I'm not too excited by the seemingly permanent nature of the
application - you can't remove the key again without first removing the
silicon wedge.
Any thoughts?
~ Matt
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 16:54:12 -0700
From: SB/JW <duodrone _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Beveled keybox slots
I do not know with certainty why some slots are beveled, the hurdy
gurdy I am working on for instance, an 1882 Pajot, has straight
holes. But here's my guess:
The smaller the length of the hole the key has to travel through, the
smaller the chance of it getting stuck and the easier to
repair/adjust if there is any wood movement. Secondly, from a maker's
point of view it is easy to start chiseling a hole exactly were you
want it, but not so easy to have it come out at the other end exactly
where you want it, the bevel edge gives you a forgiving margin of
error and also removes any rough edges you may end up with at the
exit hole.
Juan
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 20:30:07 -0700
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] Ivan Stiles' HG for sale
Sorry - I reorganized a little. You can see Ivan's HG here:
http://www.julesong.com/misc/hg/hgswap.htm
--JulieR
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 20:41:09 -0700
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] old HG
I've added some new and larger photos of my HG, here:
http://www.julesong.com/misc/hg/hgjules.htm
You can see the damaged bits quite easily in the photos. You might
recognize the accompanying text, as I used the previous email as a basis for
it. :)
--JulieR
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 23:34:09 -0700
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] Julie's HG
I'm about to expose my ignorance. If you're referring to the top surface of
the HG, then yes, there do appear to be small nails of some sort here and
there. There are some on the back, as well. They could be original, or
perhaps added as the instrument aged and the surface began pulling away from
the sides? Because they are, indeed, pulling apart.
I just took a look at the HG closely for a few minutes, and have found that
the small nails that are present are not inserted at regular points in the
instrument, which seems to indicate that they were added at a later date. I
also found some screws which I think were also added.
There are also occasional wood-worm holes. I tried to see if there were
*any* identifying marks anywhere, including on the handle, and could find
nothing.
Those of you who've referred to books which have similar HGs... can you tell
me the approximate dates of those HGs? (Could this instrument be one which
should probably be in a museum, rather than being owned by myself?)
--JulieR
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 23:38:42 -0700
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] old HG
Well, she said she wanted it to be with someone she knew would appreciate
it. :) I've long lost track of her name and information, so don't have any
way to get any more info on the HG's circumstances.
--JulieR
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 23:48:06 -0700
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: [HG] Blackening wood
I found an article at the Mugwumps website which some might find useful. It
is similar to the process mentioned by Asier.
"To Blacken Wood"
http://www.mugwumps.com/blacken.htm
--JulieR
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Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 00:43:26 -0700
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [HG] old HG
It is an unusual design but it looks well made , not some
amateur work like the instruments from Vendée , can you identify the woods ?
the back seams to be good quality maple .
I like the idea of installing only a few half tone on the lower row .
There are two somewhat similar instruments in the book of
Luce Moïse , about HG in Belgium and Holland .
Henry Boucher
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 01:29:11 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] old HG
Asier said:
>(excuse my bad-words, but i think they're necessary).
I don't think so. The Listmaster has spoken, and you are hereby warned of
dire consequences if it happens again.
Alden the Listmaster
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 01:40:08 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: [HG] Archives
Someone asked about archives. I'm almost caught up with the archives, when
they're done I'll post them all at once on the website. Sorry it's taken
so long.
Alden
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 01:52:07 -0700
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: [HG] Julie's HG
Is the sound board nailed ?
Henry
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Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 10:45:24 +0100
From: Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] old HG
I excuse your foul language as you are not British and may not realise how
bad the word is. My little boy often sits with me while I read these e-mails
and I don't want him to have to read words like this again from this list.
Please do not use the word again.
Thank you.
Colin Hill
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Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 06:20:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Smith <dtsmithnet _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: [HG] Massif Central CD's
Hello,
Recently I have been looking at the Hurdy Gurdy
website of Neil Brook who is a builder in Lancashire,
England.
http://freespace.virgin.net/hurdy.gurdy/index.html
On his website he states the following;
"There can't be many enthusiasts who have not come
across the "Massif Central" tunebooks 1&2 compiled by
Mel Stevens.
Published by Dragonfly Music, they are an invaluable
source of the music of central France.
ISBN 1 872277 05 5 and ISBN 1 872277 12 8.
For those who like to play by ear, I have recorded the
entire contents of both books on two cassettes ( on
sequenced piano ). They cost £8.00 each plus £1.50
Postage for either or both."
So, I wrote to him asking about how to go about
purchasing the cassettes here in the USA. Here is the
response from him which I thought some of you might be
interested in.
David Smith
Dearborn, Michigan, USA
Hi David
I could send the cassettes, but since those days, CDs
have largely taken over and I have been thinking about
transferring them into that format.
I admit, I haven't changed the price in 5 years so
probably £10 is more like it today. Adding say £ 5.00
P&P, that comes to £25.00 or $40.00
I am coming out to California in October and could
bring them to post there. Similarly, you could send a
cheque in $ to my daughter's address near Laguna
Beach where I'll be staying.
Let me know if you would prefer CD s .
Thanks for your kind words about the site - I often
wonder how much attention is paid to the peripheral
pages.
Best wishes
Neil Brook,
hurdygurdy _at_ onetel.net.uk
http://freespace.virgin.net/hurdy.gurdy/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 21:41:45 +0100
From: Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: [HG] Off topic (apology and warning)
My apologies to the list.
When I replied to the use of bad language, I neglected to trim the original
post from my reply with the result that it repeated itself.
A warning to us all to think before acting.
Please accept my sincere apologies.
Colin Hill
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 20:44:41 +0000
From: Asier B.G. <asierdbg _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] old HG
Ok, excuse me, I promise not to do it again (I'm going to start to go to the
church, too) :-)
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Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 20:50:59 +0000
From: Asier B.G. <asierdbg _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] old HG
Before nothing, make your son be playing or sleeping...
Well, now I can continue...
Ok, It seemed to be a culture un-understanding. Here in Spain it's usually
to speak and say bad-words if you know how to put them in the correct
moment. I couldn't understand your correct languaje "laws", but I promise to
respect them and You since today.
Excuse me and continue with the discussion about old HG, please.
Thanx a lot.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 23:06:57 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] Question about wheel position
"Asier B.G." wrote:
> Note that you can make this distance
> bigger just by making tension on the wire that holds bridge with the
> tailpiece.
Hello,
"Asier B.G." wrote:
> I first put the wheel with the axis and let all in its position. After that,
> I put the top (only with hidden screws, not glued yet), and I let a space of
> 18 mm between the bridge and the wheel. Note that you can make this distance
> bigger just by making tension on the wire that holds bridge with the
> tailpiece.
changing the distance between bridge and wheel by just putting tension
on the wire that holds the bridge, is not a satifying solution for
changing the place where the wheel touches the string (the distance
between bridge and wheel). The reason is that the open lenght of the
string is changed by this action which changes the positions for the
tangents. This will lead to a situation where the instrument gets hardly
tuneable since there is not enough space left to turn the tangents into
a correct position.
If you want to change the point where the wheel touches the string you
have to move the wheel, normally by making the slot wider and moving the
wheel on the axis or moving the whole axe system. Or you just change the
cross section of the wheel so that the touching section moves.
regards,
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
http://members.chello.at/simon.wascher/
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Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 17:26:54 -0400
From: Eugene <eugenebienvenue _at_ softhome.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] old HG
As to foul language, it is amusing that the list devoted to the most raucous
of instruments should be a forum for such a debate...
Well then, here it is.
Instead of swearing, you might make your point contextually: like suggesting
that the English "have their heads up their ....."
Or you might try substituting asterices for the naughty bits...like: "Kiss
my ***"
Try changing the sound, ever so slightly, like: "Get a life, acehole!"
But there's nothing like sheer ambiguity for getting your message across:
"What an ass!"
I hope this helped ass your concerns,
Ass ever,
Eugene
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Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 21:29:37 +0000
From: Asier B.G. <asierdbg _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Question about wheel position
Your explanation seemed correct, but I forgot to say that I do that BEFORE
making the keybox :-)
Of course, the better way is to glue the bridge on the correct position,
after your prefered distance is choosen. I like it of 15mm. What about your
distance preferences, Mr. Wascher?
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 11:42:21 -1000
From: Don Lax <donvlax _at_ maui.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Question about wheel position
On Thursday, August 15, 2002, at 11:06 AM, Simon Wascher wrote:
>
>
> --
>
> ... , aus zeitmangel und infolge widriger verhaeltnisse verlaesst die
> mehrzahl
> der menschen diese welt, ohne ueber sie nachgedacht zu haben. Einigen
> wiederum,
> die das zu tun versuchen, wird schwindelig, und sie beschaeftigen sich
> mit et-
> was anderem.
> Stanislaw Lem, Hundertsiebenunddreissig
> Sekunden
>
> http://members.chello.at/simon.wascher/
>
I love Stanislaw Lem- but what does this quote mean??
Thanks-
Don
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Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 22:01:23 +0000
From: Asier B.G. <asierdbg _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] old HG
Well, it's a possibility, but I think that way it would be two faults: I
would continue swearing. And two: I would be making hipocresy. That's why
when I decided to express my self in my way, I did it in its COMPLETE and
SINCERE way.
Althought this, I've yet express my apologises to all.
PLEASE, CAN WE CONTINUE WITH THE TOPIC: "OLD HG"??????
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 22:36:12 +0000
From: Asier B.G. <asierdbg _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: [HG] Recordings...
Hello, I'm proud of recommend you the following spanish HG players:
Rafa Martin, look in:
http://ret007ei.eresmas.net/rafa/d-rmespalda.html
for his new album. You can also buy it (pick on "comprar CD", it's about 12
Euros but ask first)look for photos, biography (in Spanish), and so on...
The next is Marc Egea:
http:/usuarios.Tripod.es/marcegea
Thanks a lot for your interesting.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 17:48:16 -0700
From: Anna Peekstok <apeekstok _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: [HG] Remembrance
Hi all, I'm just having a moment of remembrance of Pierre Imbert (I believe
it was on this date last year that he died). So many of us owe him so much,
especially the Seattle area crowd of which I am a proud member.
He was very much in my mind -- and the minds of all those within hearing
distance! -- at the Lark in the Morning music camp last week, as I drilled
my students on rhythm playing:
"RAK-tak-tak-taka-tah...RAK-tak-tak-taka-tah..."
So, maybe instead of a moment of silence, we should all go make some noise
in his honor.
Cheers,
Anna
* * * * * * * * * *
Anna Peekstok
Seattle, WA
* * * * * * * * * *
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 20:42:08 -0700
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: [HG] Strong language ,
To Asier ,
As another participant who does not have english
as first language , I understand your surprise to this event ,
Just remember that " United States " really means
" Very different States and people , United "
This kind of language seens normal on some guitar forums
but , obviously , not on the HG one <g>.
Back to normal programming ....
Henry
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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 08:53:28 +0200
From: Helmut Gotschy <Helmut.Gotschy _at_ t-online.de>
Subject: Re: [HG] old HG
himmiherrgottsakramentzefixxhallelujah
This is Bavarian and means something similar like ****, use this and and no
children will be endangerd and no linguist will be offended.
with turns
Helmut
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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 04:25:29 EDT
From: DISKJAKEY _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] Recordings...
Asier, are these Spanish HG players playing the music of Galicia and
Asturias?? Or classical Spanish music?? Thank you for the links.
Jake Conte
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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 10:41:35 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] Question about wheel position
Hello Don,
I can try to translate it into english, but I am not sure if the outcome
of this precedure will be usefull:
... , due to lack of time and adverse circumstances the majority of
humans depart from this world without having reflected about it. Others
who have tried to do so become dizzy and then busy themselfs with
something else.
regards,
Simon Wascher
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 22:50:21 -1000
From: Don Lax <donvlax _at_ maui.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Question about wheel position
Thanks Simon-
That's perfectly Lem, and made me smile-
I hope that I can take a lesson or two from you some day...
Aloha-
Don
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 12:44:02 +0200
From: Marc Reymen <reymen _at_ pandora.be>
Subject: [HG] (no subject)
Hello,
I hear there is some discussion on the materials for the making of a
good wheel.
The best material for me is Delignit Panzerholz type B 25
This is a multiplex from very small veneers of beech
Total thicknes is 23mm
There are 42 layers in it and the circumference of the wheel is
absolutely closed ,so perfect for making of a wheel .
No more rim required
The plate looks like beech so no veneering of the sides is needed.
It is absolutely garanteed not to deform or change in whatever way
even resisting humidity so perfect for an underwater hg ( wouldn't it
be nice ... playing for the fishes...
You can find documentation on delignit on the net under delignit .
Please let me now how you find it ....
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 08:31:20 -0400
From: Beverly Woods <tradmusic _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] ebony filler
OK, I asked the repair techs when I was in Vintage Fret yesterday about
black CA, and they told me that black CA makes a great filler, but lacks the
adhesive power of the clear CA. So you wouldn't want to use it in a joint,
for instance, expecting the gluing strength of the clear product. They had
no explanation for the price difference between Stew-mac and LMI except 1)
LMI is sometimes pricey, or 2) maybe LMI has one that has the adhesive power
of clear CA? In any case, it's the less expensive version that they buy to
use in the shop.
Regarding the adhesive & sawdust method, they said this was the older method
they used before they got hold of things like black CA, still works, but
labor-intensive compared with black CA.
Beverly
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 06:33:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] ebony filler
Hey Beverly, thanks for the research.
--- Beverly Woods <tradmusic _at_ earthlink.net> wrote:
> ... black CA makes a great filler, but lacks the
> adhesive power of the clear CA. So you wouldn't want to use it in a
> joint, for instance...
I was watching some videos of model aircraft and can't tell for sure if
crashing is part of the "sport" or just an acknowledged disaster.
Either way I can see where breakaway glue might be an asset. It might
be asset on vielles if you travel a lot ;-)
> They had
> no explanation for the price difference between Stew-mac and LMI
> except 1) LMI is sometimes pricey,
I haven't shopped with either in years. But it was never unusual to
find a product that was entirely too precious with one and dirt cheap
with the other. My lutherie time is so limited these days that I've
gone over to the tiny over-the-counter tubes at the supermarket. The
larger bottles always set up before I can use it all.
Personally I try to buy everything I can locally. One of the benefits
is the missionary aspect. When they ask "What are you going to do with
one ball-bearing?" You get to tell them. Frequently you get invited to
come in and play. Then you drag it into a cafe on the way home under
the pretext that you don't want to leave it out in the car in the heat,
and they just gotta know ...
> Regarding the adhesive & sawdust method, they said this was the older
> method
> they used before they got hold of things like black CA, still works,
> but
> labor-intensive compared with black CA.
The labor intensive part is making all that sawdust ;-)
Later, Roy
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 08:35:16 -0500
From: arle lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] old HG
There is also the "Tasmanian Devil" or "Yosemite Sam" cursing:
rickinffrickinrackinfrackinrootintootin rabbit!
That's considered safe for small children by most people... (It's
from Warner Brothers Looney Tunes cartoons, just in case anyone
doesn't know the Tasmanian Devil or Yosemite Sam)
-Arle
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 06:58:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: [HG] The Dog Not Taken
All this talk about fillers and glues has me wondering if anyone has
experimented with chiens made of anything but wood. Synthetics are
really what I'm curious about, but I'd welcome views on metal, stone,
bone, or even alternate woods. (I'm familiar with boxwood, and aware of
ebony. The first one I made was hard maple: I don't know if it was
unsatisfactory because of the wood or the crafting, but I never tried
it again.)
While we're at it, any comments on tap-plates are also welcome.
Thanks, Roy T.
P.S. I'm not coming up with any lame jokes for this posting. Sorry.
I'll get back to you.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 07:12:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] WAS old HG; NOW; $%&*# _at_ !!!!!
Gee, folks, we've gotten an apology and at least two retractions. Let's
come up off of it, already.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 10:38:25 -0400
From: Allan Janus <allan.janus _at_ verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] WAS old HG; NOW; $%&*# _at_ !!!!!
Couldn't agree more, Roy. Maybe we need a tune - here's "The Frolic",
performed by the City Waites, with David Chatterley on HG. It's from
their CD "The Musitians of Grope Alley". The file is in Real Audio
format:
http://janusmuseum.org/audio/frolic.ram
Allan Janus
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 08:33:55 -0700
From: Diana O'Neill <dianamark _at_ foxinternet.com>
Subject: [HG] Pierre Remembrance, from Diana
Thank you Anna, for the thoughts. It is wonderful to imagine everyone
playing in remembrance and observing a moment of silence.
Diana O'Neill & Mark Farrell
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 09:01:00 -0700
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] WAS old HG; NOW; $%&*# _at_ !!!!!
Anytime that anybody wants to talk about the original subject - my old HG -
is fine with me. :)
--JulieR
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 11:02:34 -0500
From: "Smishkewych, Wolodymyr" <wjsmishk _at_ indiana.edu>, asierdbg _at_ hotmail.com
Subject: RE: [HG] Recordings of spanish HG and off-topic old HG/bad language
I second Asier's recomendation of Rafa, he is a great person as well and
very nice to deal with. His group "La Bruja Gata" (the Bewitched Cat) has
a great CD, 'manual de pociones' (manual of potions/concoctions), both of
which i ended up buying directly from Rafa himself by mail. the instrument
is french style, with a trompette, in case anyone is wary of my a musette-pushing
tendencies... ;^)
regarding the bad laguage issue, my tuppence and then i'll let it rest:
I wholly agree with Colin and Alden, though with Asier being partly a
countryperson of mine, it might be interesting to know that the bad word
in question has a much stronger weight in English than in Spanish, where
it is slightly stronger than our "damn". In English it is certainly not the case.
that having been said, i agree that that kind of colorful metaphor has no
place on our list; i can sympathize with you Colin, as I wouldn't want my
daughter to have to read that word, in English or otherwise.
cheers,
Vlad
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 09:03:20 -0700
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] Julie's HG
Since I don't have access to the books which were referred to, I'm still
hoping to hear more details about similar instruments.
--JulieR
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 09:10:04 -0700
From: SB/JW <duodrone _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] ebony filler
Well, the job of filling the keys is completed. Like Roy, I prefer to
shop locally when possible, it also has the advantage that you can
sart as soon as you get home. So I ended up using the cheap, clear
'extra thick' CA glue. I started by mixing it with ebony sawdust
before applying, but after doing a couple of keys this way, I decided
this was too messy and time consuming, especially since the stuff
sets in seconds. I figured out a way to do this job quickly and mess
free:
First I apply CA directly onto the area to be filled and spread to a
thin layer. I immediately dip the key in a jar of ebony dust, making
sure it covers the glue. Them I tap the key on the rim of the jar to
remove any loose dust and then pat the dust covered glue with my
finger until uniform, ( I live dangerously, but I don't walk around
with hurdy gurdy keys stuck to my fingers) , sand and repeat as
necessary. The whole procedure takes seconds and the results are
better than I had hoped for.
Juan
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 11:15:23 -0500
From: "Smishkewych, Wolodymyr" <wjsmishk _at_ indiana.edu>, DISKJAKEY _at_ aol.com
Subject: RE: [HG] Recordings...
Hi Jake and all-
Rafa plays mostly music of Castile and Leon, which is generally a 'gaita charra'
(pipe and tabor) repertoire. it's also, and he talks about this in this solo album
'a la espalda de el gigante', an "invented" repertoire, since Castile has not too
much in the way of autochtonous HG music. Galician and ASturian music can be hear
on other recordings, some of which i think you may know, there's quite a lot of HG
played on Milladoiro's 1st album "a nosa terra." i just ran across some blind beggar's
music from asturias (like the lyrniki trad of ukraine) on the web, i can try to locate
urls or info for the list...
cheers,
vlad
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 11:20:57 -0500
From: "Smishkewych, Wolodymyr" <wjsmishk _at_ indiana.edu>
Subject: RE: [HG] BACK to OLD HG!
Good idea-i sent my message fragment that related to it before seeing these last few.
Julie, maybe a new to the scene maker with more time on her hands could try doing it
for you for a decent price. this could get new life to the instrument fast! i think
though, it depends on how much in a rush you are to get it going.
i think i misplaced the photo you sent...do you have time to resend it again? (you
can do this to me privately, instead of filling the list's inboxes).
cheers,
Vlad
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 11:31:33 -0500
From: "Smishkewych, Wolodymyr" <wjsmishk _at_ indiana.edu>, hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com
Subject: [HG] Delignit source for north american region
Here are some Delignit sources i stumbled upon:
(canadian supplier of the German company):
http://www.delignit.de/canada/delignit/products/wood/delignitpanzerha.html
http://www.fh-luebeck.de/bau/diplomarbeiten/bauing/diplome/holzbau/Diplom/Seiten/227panz.htm
(this last one has a picture of what your HG wheel would look like after you shot a bullet through it!)
Here's the Deutsch version of the 1st page:
http://www.delignit.de/holzmust/panzerholz.html
good luck--
Vlad
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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 10:02:45 -0700
From: SB/JW <duodrone _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] The Dog Not Taken
>All this talk about fillers and glues has me wondering if anyone has
>experimented with chiens made of anything but wood. Synthetics are
>really what I'm curious about, but I'd welcome views on metal, stone,
>bone, or even alternate woods. (I'm familiar with boxwood, and aware of
>ebony. The first one I made was hard maple: I don't know if it was
>unsatisfactory because of the wood or the crafting, but I never tried
>it again.)
If you are anything like me, you go through a whole litter of chiens
before you find the one that is right for your instrument. Maple is
cheap, easy to work and good for this purpose, I tried boxwood and
ebony chiens, but they weren't any better than maple.
>
>While we're at it, any comments on tap-plates are also welcome.
The hurdy gurdy I am working on came with a roughly cut glass
tap-plate, obviously not an original feature . The trompette/mouche
bridge needed to be glued back on and the plate ran under the bridge
for a couple of mm, so I had to choose whether to keep the glass or
replace it with a bone one before I glued the bridge back on. I
decided to replaced the glass, so we'll never know what that sounded
like, but it must have worked for someone.
Juan
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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 10:18:17 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] ebony filler
Dear Juan and listmembers,
Juan, as you might imagine we have tried about everything on the market in
this regard. I recommended casting resin because it does bond well with
wood, if mixed properly it dries very hard, it has a proven track record
which CA (superglue) does not, it doesn't creep like aliphatic resin
(Titebond) and it comes in a wide variety of set times and
viscosity. Casting resin is essentially an epoxy (catalyzed resin ) and
can be easily colored with either wood dust or other colorants. The
problem of gloss is simply remedied by applying a little steel wool to the
final dried product. Other epoxy substances would also work. Matt's
suggestion of epoxy putty is also a good one, though I have found that
working colorant into the putty was kind of a chore, possible but labor
intensive. The drawback of any of the epoxies is that you will probably
get small bubbles in the initial use which will have to be filled.
The aliphatic resins such as Titebond and Titebond II simply won't stand up
to the wear on keys over time. I know it is tempting because it is such a
simple and available fix, but I don't think you will be pleased with it in
the long run, it also shrinks as it dries. Of course, if you aren't
intending to play the instrument much it may be all you need.
The black superglue doesn't dry very hard and superglue in general doesn't
stand the test of time very well. It is a staple in the luthier's repair
arsenal, but we are using it less and less as we watch what happens with it
over time. The clear stuff yellows and becomes brittle and flakey and just
generally seems to deteriorate, especially if subjected to temperature and
humidity changes.
Cali Hackmann
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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:22:46 +0100
From: hurdy.gurdy <hurdy.gurdy _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] The Dog Not Taken
I made one from bone years ago. Looked beautiful, shame it didn't work!
I have found lacewood to be better than maple, it seems stronger and
lighter.
Neil Brook,
hurdygurdy _at_ onetel.net.uk
www.hurdy-gurdy.org.uk
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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 13:27:16 EDT
From: Cruikshank44 _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] old HG
How is this pronounced? I'd love to get our parrot to use it!
Felicia, who has cleaned up her language considerably since getting said
parrot. Except when tuning my &%%(*&^&$^&^ gurdy...
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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 10:27:29 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: [HG] alternative chien materials
Hi Roy,
The most interesting dog I have seen was made of cardboard and super
glue. The gentleman who made said that he was not a woodworker and didn't
have tools so he cut out the cardboard (the fiber composite type, not
corrugated) and glued it together and then coated it with super glue. It
was a very responsive dog and had a good crisp sound. Wonders never cease.
We make ours out of boxwood because it is easy to carve, but I have seen
lots of different woods used and they all seemed to work pretty well. I
think it might be fun to try a graphite dog or even cast one out of pewter.
Cali Hackmann
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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 11:00:03 -0700
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] BACK to OLD HG!
>From: Smishkewych, Wolodymyr
>Julie, maybe a new to the scene maker with more
>time on her hands could try doing it for you for
>a decent price. this could get new life to the
>instrument fast! i think though, it depends on
>how much in a rush you are to get it going.
I'm not really in that much of a hurry. And it's such an old gurdy, and
unusual, that it should probably be restored by someone who *really* knows
what they're doing.
>i think i misplaced the photo you sent...
http://www.julesong.com/misc/hg/hgjules.htm
--JulieR
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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 20:29:04 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] ebony filler
Hello,
Alden & Cali Hackmann wrote:
(...) and superglue in general doesn't
> stand the test of time very well. It is a staple in the luthier's repair
> arsenal, but we are using it less and less as we watch what happens with it
> over time. The clear stuff yellows and becomes brittle and flakey and just
> generally seems to deteriorate, especially if subjected to temperature and
> humidity changes.
All my experiences with superglue make me agrgee with this statement.
I belive this is what the stuff is good for: carrying superglue in the
hurdy gurdy first aid kit because of its characteristic to allow a quick
and satisfying repair that does *not* last till eternity. Meaning you
can continue playing your concert, but your instrument maker will be
able to remove the bonding for a lasting quality repair.
regards,
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
--
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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 19:30:09 +0100
From: Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] BACK to OLD HG!
Just looked at your page - nice looking gurdy, I hope you will be able to
get it restored - it deserves playing again. Have you ever heard it play?
have you tried it? How did it sound (even with the cracks). I think we would
like to know.
Colin Hill
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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 12:00:29 -0700
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] BACK to OLD HG!
> Just looked at your page - nice looking gurdy, I hope you will be able to
> get it restored - it deserves playing again.
It would be great for it to be restored, and I agree that it deserves to be
played again. :) I really wish I knew the history of the instrument! I have
the feeling it would have a lot of interesting stories to tell.
> Have you ever heard it play?
> have you tried it? How did it sound (even with the cracks). I
> think we would like to know.
No, I haven't tried playing it. The instrument in its current condition
is pretty fragile, and the wheel is no longer true and rubs against the
top surface a bit. The wood in the body is quite thin; this gurdy is pretty
light in weight. To try to play it I'm sure would widen the existing cracks
even further.
So I'll just have to wait until someone can fix her up. :)
--JulieR
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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 22:07:05 +0200
From: Marc Reymen <reymen _at_ pandora.be>
Subject: Re: [HG] Lucy' s HG ,
hello,
If that is true...!
The instrument in Bruges is only 150km away from me.
Besides i'd like to go to Bruges, only 30 km from the sea , good for the
children and the wife.....
If you like i can go over there and visit it, maybe take some pics and do
some research about it ....
Sorry Henry but I see no oak in it.
Only lutier quality maple for the back and the sides and some spruce, i
think, for the soundboard
I think the instrument should be repaired whithout putting new wood on it at
least for the body.
Crack's like those i see on the pics can be repaired by a lutier we learned
those things at school....
Marc
Henry Boucher wrote:
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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 13:42:37 -0700
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: RE: [H for the soundboard
> I think the instrument should be repaired whithout putting new
> wood on it at least for the body.
> Crack's like those i see on the pics can be repaired by a lutier
> we learned those things at school...
Since I'm nearby Alden... I think that probably he can give a much better
assessment of the instrument's condition than I ever could. He'll be able
to give real detail when he's had it in his hands. Alden, you'll be hearing
from me. :)
--Julie
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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 15:33:56 -0700
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: [HG] Lucy' s HG ,
Found by book , it is
" La Vielle a Roue " ( original isn't it <g>)
by Luce Moïses ,
éditions la renaissance du livre ,
collection , les instruments de musique populaire en elgique et aux Pays
Bas ,
Bruxelles 1986
So , I we consider the most unusual aspect of your HG , there is one
similar
in the book , p 13
Guitar shaped ,
the keybox extend outside of the sound box ,
the head has a scroll instead of a human head figure,
nailed soundboard ,
four pegs,
diatonic keyboard,
the chanter bridge seems to be made of two pieces of wood and
has a very unusual shape,
string holder long and narrow,
The similar instrument is kept at the Gruutthusemuseum
in Bruge , ( # 2300 ) , no info about age or origin .
Size :
total lenght :591mm
body lenght :439mm
keybox lenght : 305mm
wheel diam : 124mm
vibrating lenght of strings : 375 mm
The odd shaped bridge , violin scroll, nailed sound board are also
found other HG made in Belgium in the early 1800 ,
So many variety of wood have been used that it would be misleading
to follow that path , still for repair purposes , it would be
interesting to
know of wich woods your instrument is made , BTW I suggest that
you start wood hunting NOW ! , if you want to have it dry by the time
you are ready to have the repairs done , some woods , like oak ,
are not normally in the reserve of a luthier shop.
Hope it helps ,
Henry Boucher
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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 23:38:43 +0200
From: Marc Reymen <reymen _at_ pandora.be>
Subject: Re: [HG] Lucy' s HG ,
Hello,
I don't think they have a large collection of musical instruments.
In fact I already looked them up on the net and they say :....and a small
collection of instruments... that doesn't looks good
It's very well possible that they only have one hg and don't now whitch
instrument it is , if you ask them.
most likely they don't have a lutier for the collction and in those cases its
very difficult to get the instrument ready for some pics
I'll try it anyway
I'll phone them on monday because most likely the conservator has to give his ok
for this and i hope he is back on monday...
Marc
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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:54:57 +0000
From: Asier B.G. <asierdbg _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Recordings...
Well, Rafa Martin plays traditional Spanish songs from zones in the centre
of our country, like Zamora, Caceres, Salamanca, and Castilla y Leon. He
makes a review of this traditional music that originally is composed for
"gaita de boto" (a kind of bagpipe), or tabor pipe, and puts these songs
into the sound of the hurdy-gurdy, because HG have a great function in
Galicia trad music but not in that other countries. He also gives a modern
touch to these trad songs including new techniques as using of capodastros,
three trompettes, fingerboard under the drones, and so on...
Marc Egea is from Catalonia (North-East of Spain) and plays a couple of
songs from that tradition, but also music from Bulgary and Rumany, with a
big sense of improvisation. He uses new techniques, too.
Both players have recorded their CD's in a professional way and have a high
quality of sound. THEY'RE HIGHLY RECOMMENDABLE!!!!
KEEP ON TURNING...
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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 22:12:18 +0000
From: Asier B.G. <asierdbg _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] Recordings...
A friend (and customer) of mine was in Santiago de Compostela (Galicia) two
weeks ago and he met a HG street player. His name was Manuel Lousas and he
was playing for money and selling his music in CD. He has recorded a CD
called "zanfona na pedra" (HG on the rock (but not in the drinking way, he,
he)). It's a self recorded CD, in a virgin disc, but with serigraphy and
colour booklet. He plays music strictly traditional from Galicia, in the
medieval/celtic way. He uses a nice instrument in the french style, but he
makes a little use of dog, 'cos it isn't a trad. component of Galician HG.
Manuel Lousas 676-812-632 (think you can send a phone message by some web
site with free messages...)
Keep on Turning...
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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 22:19:02 +0000
From: Asier B.G. <asierdbg _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Delignit source for north american region
I'm afraid for how my chisel will looks after turning the wheel with such
hard material!!! sniff, sniff, my chisel!, sniff, sniff...
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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 17:44:10 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: [HG] Person looking for HG in the UK
This was posted on a Usenet newsgroup:
Subject: Re: anyone know where these hurdy gurdy are being sold
Newsgroups: rec.music.celtic
References: <ac596173.0208100234.df93d3b _at_ posting.google.com>
>I have been told that there are two hurdy gurdies for sale, one in
>Melksham and one in Plymouth. Can anyone help me get in touch
>directly, I'm desperately keen to buy one immediately?
>Thanks
>Damian Clarke
>damian _at_ voxpop.demon.co.uk
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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:03:12 EDT
From: DISKJAKEY _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] was old HG, now politically correct cursing
In a message dated 8/16/02 1:28:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Cruikshank44 _at_ aol.com writes:
Except when tuning my &%%(*&^&$^&^ gurdy...
That's fine, Felicia, but you have to add a few # and _at_ .
For example: #&% _at_ #!&% _at_ #
Or the Fred Flinstone: "Brickabracken......"
And the Yosemite Sam one always worked for me too.
Jake Conte
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Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 00:57:51 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: [HG] Pierre Imbert
Thank you, Anna, for a timely reminder of the anniversary of Pierre's
passing. I don't think that a day has gone by without my thinking about
him and missing him. Words can't really describe the hole that his loss
has left in my heart.
Alden the Listmaster
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Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 12:14:00 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] The Dog Not Taken
Hello,
"hurdy.gurdy" wrote:
> I have found lacewood to be better than maple, it seems stronger and
> lighter.
I did a bit of research in in the net about 'Lacewood' since my
dictionary did not know about.
I found four species and for two of them I also found other names:
Lacewood, London Plane - Palatanus hybrida
Lacewood - Roupala Brasilensis
Lacewood - Grevillea robusta (Proteaceae) OR Cardwellia sublimis
Northern Silky Oak - Cardwellia sublimis
Silky Oak - Grevillea robusta
So, as allways with wood, a serious dicussion on materials is only
possible if the botanical names are enclosed.
my first guess is that what you mean is Palatanus hybrida since this is
the one that grows in England.
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
--
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Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 12:43:07 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] The Dog Not Taken
Hello,
Simon Wascher wrote:
> Lacewood, London Plane - Palatanus hybrida
> Lacewood - Roupala Brasilensis
> Lacewood - Grevillea robusta (Proteaceae) OR Cardwellia sublimis
> Northern Silky Oak - Cardwellia sublimis
> Silky Oak - Grevillea robusta
another lacewood:
Lacewood, Yellow (Polyalthia oblongifolia)
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
--
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Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 11:08:48 -0500
From: arle lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] The Dog Not Taken
Hi,
at least in the US, when one refers to lacewood among woodworkers,
the reference is generally to an Australian hardwood which is
characterized by extremely prominent medulary rays. When quartersawn
these are very visible and give a characteristic lace-like
appearance. I don't know about what is meant elsewhere, and I don't
know the scientific name, although my guess would be one of the
Cardwellia species since the Palatanus is European and the Roupala
appears to be South American.
-Arle
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Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 10:00:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] ebony filler
--- SB/JW <duodrone _at_ earthlink.net> wrote:
> I figured out a way to do this job quickly and mess
> free:
> First I apply CA directly onto the area to be filled and spread to a
> thin layer. I immediately dip the key in a jar of ebony dust, making
> sure it covers the glue. Them I tap the key on the rim of the jar to
> remove any loose dust and then pat the dust covered glue with my
> finger until uniform, ( I live dangerously, but I don't walk around
> with hurdy gurdy keys stuck to my fingers) , sand and repeat as
> necessary. The whole procedure takes seconds and the results are
> better than I had hoped for.
I dump the dust on the glue, mash it down with the flat of a razor
blade (easy to clean) and dump the remainder back in the jar.
Given the comments on longevity of CA glues:
The technique is generally used on places that get a lot of wear and
get redone (or recoated) occasionally. With a few minor variations it
is also used to fill seams in inlays, so you get a nice black hairline
border. Inlays on HGs don't get a lot of wear like they do on guitar
fretboards. Would it be feasible to use (completely non-toxic, quick
drying) hide glue in this way?
Thanks, Roy T.
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Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 19:16:24 +0200
From: Marc Reymen <reymen _at_ pandora.be>
Subject: Re: [HG] ebony filler
If you speak about the hide glue you warm up in a water bath i think this
was already done in the past centuries....
After some time people always reinvent the old tricks from the old
masters...
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Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 10:49:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] old HG; (Really!)
--- JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com> wrote:
>
> Anytime that anybody wants to talk about the original subject - my
> old HG -
> is fine with me. :)
A few stray thoughts:
Sorry, I don't see any remarkable similarity between yours and the
Reolid shown. I really enjoyed your photos tho', you did a nice job
with that.
-------------------
I have run into a few examples of some really nice instruments (that
needed some work) going from cheap-to-free to a "good owner".
Two cases: One fiddle had been in a flood, full of mud. It went for $25
to a fiddler/repairman. He took it apart, cleaned it up and it turned
out to be a really superior instrument. A piper who was approached by
the owner of some pipes that had become a wall hanging. She had decided
that they should be getting played and gave them to him. with a new bag
and reeds it also revealed a sterling character. I only pray that
someday I'll be a good enough player to inspire people to give me free
stuff <g>.
So far every time I've acquired "some old junk", it turned out to be
just that. I have restored old mail-order guitars that turned out to be
cannons. The second, I was extremely skeptical, and told him if he
wasn't happy I'd buy it off him for $30, so he could at least turn a
small profit. He has turned down much, much better offers.
So you never know. I'd be interested to see what you have when you do
get it restored.
Later Roy T
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Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 00:20:05 +0200
From: René Meeuws <meeuws _at_ msmp.demon.nl>
Subject: Re: [HG] Some advice "a Siorat or a Gotschy"
I just returned from holidays and I had to read several hundreds of HG-list
mails ......
----- Original Message -----
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: [HG] Some advice "a Siorat or a Gotschy"
>
> I can't comment on Gotschy's instruments - I haven't played one.
>
I have. They 're very OK!
> If you want to play both acoustic and electric, I would not recommend a
> Siorat. His electroacoustics can sound very nice (especially if you
> happen to be Gilles Chabenat) but electro-acoustic is a bit of a misnomer:
> you basically can't play it without being plugged in.
I can't agree with that point of view at all.
If you want to play an electroacoustic HG (from any maker) amplified, you
will get the best resultst if the instrument is regulated very light. If
not, you will amplifie also all the mechanical background noises every HG
always has. If you do so, the consequence is -of course- that your
instrument has less power when you play acoustic. If you use your instrument
both acoustic as well as amplified, you have to find a compomise and that's
possible very well with a Siorat!
When I choose for an electroacoustic Siorat 15 years ago, I did so because
of the acoustic sound. I knew nothing about electroacoustics at that time: I
discovered the possibilities later.
You cannot judge the acoustic qualities of such instruments from one or two
specimen which are fully prepared just for amplification. I use my ea-Siorat
both amplified, as well as acoustic (in a trio, in workshops and even for a
baroque program): satisfaction guaranteed. I know a lot of Siorat players
who chosed their ea- instrument in the first place cause of the warm
acoustic sound; many of them hardly use the electroacoustic possibilities.
So why "misnomer"?????
> The acoustic trompette sound in particular is very weak.
Be lucky a Siorat has no bourbonnais trompette! ;-)
Mind you, the first thing a HG player does when he gets his new instrument,
is make his own trompette! So what's the problem? Further: see above.
Greetings from Holland, NL,
René Meeuws
Nijmegen
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Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 18:26:55 +0300
From: Juulia & Esa <ottilia _at_ saunalahti.fi>
Subject: [HG] Sordino, ear-plugs?
Knowing that this might be considered severe heresy, I take the risk:
Does anyone of you players & makers have a proper solution for sordino -
for practise at home or other situations when you wish to play with less
volume?
Or am I the only player whose family more or less kindly & more or less
frequently asks about the possibility to play with less volume...
There's a saying about accordion player: the best sordino is the coffin. I
agree to that, but really would like to find something useful between (or
before) that solution and clothes-pin or blue-tac on bridges.
And another question:
Proper ear-plugs (christmas-tree -model) are a must nowadays, at least if
one after years with hg wishes to hear something else than tinni